Need some feedback in ceramic install gone bad.

[Orlando]

As stated previously joists are running oposite of cracks, support beams every 12 ft running same as cracks

[redrock56]

Originally Posted by cproader Is there a load baring support under it at the crack...seems with the weight of the fridge on the right, and the load of the island on the left would suggest a sag on both sides....

I'm almost thinkin' cproader has something here. As I said before, if the cracks are organized and running perpendicular to the joists, the tile is under sever tensile (tension) stress. The center isle and fridge sets atop the joists with just a mere 4 feet separating the two heavy objects? As usual, I'm thinkin' out loud here, but on these boards, a brainstorm is capable of happening at any given point.

You have two separate cracks on either side of the isle. I'm assumin' granite....or a cultured product?

[Orlando]

Yes granite countertops but its not out of the norm to have islands and fridge on tile in a kitchen.
Now I'll throw another wrench in the mess. They just found another crack starting clear down the hallway in a bathroom. Different tile and guess what, its on top of a OSB joint. No weight there. I'm at a loss on this one guys

[rgfloor]

[quote=Orlando;42879] Joists had a 17- 19 percent moisture, [quote=Orlando;42879]


That's a pretty high number, joist and OSB assembly may have swelled and put pressure on the CBU.

[Orlando]

Thats the only thing I can think could have happened.

[Bud Cline]

Too much overall load for the structure. Vibrations from daily foot traffic and appliances are menifesting themselves in the junctures of the subfloor assembly and being transmitted through the flexural tilebacker into the rigid tile.

The floor may seem solid at any given point but is in fact acting like a wrestling ring and repeatedly deflecting and vibrating overall.

[Orlando]

Thanks for your input but I'm not buying it. If that were true every tile job would fail. There is something more going on here. How about the cracked tile 16 ft down the hallway that is developing a crack Look at the pictue where the tile is bowed downwards and has cracked. Thats not from vibration
Owners are two retired people, no kids having wild parties jumping up and down on the kitchen. Even if they were I cant see it cracking the way it is

[Bud Cline]

FINE!!!

You were asking for suggestions!!!

Are there load bearing walls below the hallway walls or are those walls built over nothing? Don't kid yourself my friend, that whole floor could be floating in the wind.

I tried. It's as good as anything you have so far and obviously YOU don't know what the problem is either. Anywhere else I could have charged $400 for that opinion and you got it for free.

[Tandy Reeves]

I agree with Bud. When you load a floor with furniture, and the weight of tile, it don't take much to have deflection movement. You are right every floor that has excessive deflection and tile will have cracked tile.

[Floorguy]

How about foundation settling. One side sank a little more then the other side.

[Orlando]

Easy Bud, didnt mean to offend you. Its just kinda hard for you to see whats going on with pictures. How can it be deflection when there are support beams running within a ft of one of the cracks ,also deflection ,settling does not expalin the bow under the cracked area. The beams have pilings built with laid cement block on a concrete pad. I'm telling you guys this floor is built like a tank. I had a guy that weighs well over 300lbs walk heavily on this floor we me in the crawlspace, no movement on the OSB joints at all. I have seen floors with alot of deflection with ceramic installed that should have failed and didnt. Bud I welcome your opinons but think we have to look at something else

[rgfloor]

If the floor is built like a tank then the question must be asked what is moving? Obviously something is or the tile would not crack. Start asking the questions. When you come upon an answer that is out of the ordinary you will probably have your culprit.

1. Does the floor have deflection?
2. Any movement of the OSB or backer board?
3. Where are the crack lines?
4. Was the installation done completly to standard specs?
5. What is the M/C of the OSB?
6. What testing was done prior to the install?
7. What are the common factors to the different areas cracking?

There are more questions that you could ask based upon your knowledge of the particular job, but I think you get my point to ask all the questions.

[Orlando]

1-No
2-No, none visible
3-crack lines directly over OSB
4-Yes
5-Moisture Content was 5-6 percent in living quarters. I know because I checked it for them when they installed the hardwood
6-yes
7-All directly over OSB joints

So common factors are OSB joints which are tounge and groove and no deflection
But there is a downwards bow in theOSB ,CBU and tile where the crack is.
Question is what caused the OSB,CBU,tile to bow and ultimatly crack?

The crack is to the left of the tape, notice the gap under the straight edge. These tile are still secure to the OSB

[Floorguy]

Framing timbers that were wet, and now are not, causing them to shrink and warp? Throwing out things, now.

[rgfloor]

Originally Posted by Orlando Joists had a 17- 19 percent moisture, OSB had less moisture but was protected with insulation.

Originally Posted by Orlando 5-Moisture Content was 5-6 percent in living quarters. I know because I checked it for them when they installed the hardwood

With these two quotes I see a problem. If it was 5-6 and then went to 17-19, ask yourself, what does wood do when it gains in M/C? It grows or swells=expands. That expansion has to go somewhere, if not laterally then it goes upwards, at the OSB joints. Viola! cracks in your tile.

Send the check in care of TFP, thanks.
PS make it a large one!!