Generations of Nylon

[kwfloors]

Has anyone seen how the fiber is made at the factory? I've seen the plate they pour the nylon through to get the fiber but not in use. What is fishing line?

[Peter Kodner]

Great question! I have been to a couple of fiber extrusion plants. The plate is called a spinerette. I was really amazed at how the hollow filament fibers are made. Any ideas how they do it?

Equally interesting was how the must draw the fibers before they cools too much. Drawing (stretching) aligns the molecular structure and gives it the tensile strength.

Now for the fourth generation change:

Drum roll please.....

Permanent static protection!

Started in commercial with a carbonized filament, one per every 78 ends of regular fiber. Prior to this, a spray was used to prevent the generation of static. Spray ons eventually walked off by the filament allowed normal static to bleed off and prevent a person walking from generating the charge in the first place.

A note on static: A regular static rating on carpet covers only that a 3.5 kv charge will not be generated. 3.5 is the human threshold: below that, we do not feel it. The generation of static charges is only half the equation when looking at static controlled carpet for sensitive electronic environments. Dissipation is the other factor. In most cases, we enter areas with a charge already built up. Static dissipative materials will remove this charge, which can be 15,000 volts or more, within 3 steps into the area. This is important for computers and other sensitive equipment as static takes a cumulative toll on them, i.e. multiple small shocks will add up over the life of the equipment.

[cproader]

Peter Kodner said Now for the fourth generation change: Drum roll please..... Permanent static protection! .

........this is some great info there Pete............r..........:bl ink:

I was gonna say that................bu t after my last embarrassin moment, I decide to take the safe out..........

[FlooringGirl]

Okay, here is my guess of the continued progression of nylon fibers:

It has gone from trilobal fibers to multilobal fibers. Maybe I don't pay enough attention when the reps are in the store, but it seems to me that they say the Tactesse has five rounded lobes as opposed to the previous three lobes of the plain 6:6. Which causes it to be tighter in molecular structure and then wear much better.

I think we all know nylon, when dyed, has empty cells, thus requiring added protection which fills the empty dye cells or sites. Just as we know that Scotchguard is sucked out of the cells upon cleaning and needs to be reapplied afterward, while the Stainmaster treatment is extruded into the fiber upon manufacture.

Do I get a prize, or am I losing my mind?

Tia

[Peter Kodner]

Tia, you are not far off. I have to admit I was not aware Tactesse was a pentagonal cross section. Premium Zeftron (BASF commercial fiber) was that shape with six holes, one in each lobe and the 6th in the center.

I do not doubt the info about Tactesse but it is a bit contrary to my understanding of fiber extrusion. The hollow filament yarns do not accomplish the soil hiding aspect by their shape, but by the holes diffusing the light passing through better than trilobal shapes do. They are significantly higher in fiber size, or DPF (denier per filament) and do not lend themselves to soft hands. Larger filament sizes are harsher/harder feeling. A typical hollow filament will be 18 or higher DPF. Commercial trilobal shapes never are under a 15 DPF. Tactesse is a 12 DPF.

They are very good for commercial as there is less surface area per weight unit which equates to somewhat easier soil removal during cleaning. The also do not have any type of crevice for soil to attach itself to. Note this only pertains to hollow filament fibers. A ton of trilobal is used commercially, but they again use a higher DPF filament for this use.

On to 5th generation: Stainmaster and its ilk.

As you said FG, all nylon is engineered to have dye sites. They actually are more like fissures along the filament lengths than holes (I have posted a picture of nylon fiber before but cannot find it now to add to this thread. If I can get the ambition, I'll take some myself and post them if they illustrate my comments.). With very deep colors, such as dark blue, burgundy, hunter green, this does not present any problem as the solids in the dyes will fill the bulk of the dye sites, up to about 80%. With lighter colors, yellows, beige and in particular off white, very little of the dye site is filled. Any acid based carrier will readily fill the available space in the dye sites. Think mustard, ketchup, red wine- all very acidic products that are frequently spilled. Keep in mind, all nylon fiber (except solution dyes) are acid dyes. There is a chemical bond form acid to nylon, much as there is a similar bond for oils and both polyester (including Triexta) and polypropylene.

Stainmaster effectively fills whatever space is available in the dye sites leaving the fiber "smooth" with no physical location for staining agents to grab o to.

A couple of clarification notes:

My definitions of the changes equaling a "generation" mat differ from others. I did not write the book on this. As an example, some do not consider delustering a generation but do deem the application of fluorocarbons (Scotch guard and Teflon) the 4th one.

I have listed them separately as the application of fluorocarbons was a mill change, not one created by the fiber engineers. Scotch guard and Teflon were substituted for very light machine oils that had been used for yarn lubrication during the tufting process. It was found excess lubricant (Scotch guard or Teflon) would flash off in the dyeing and backing ovens without any additional scouring being needed. Complaints for rapid soiling (and re-soiling) dropped dramatically after the change from oils.

[FlooringGirl]

Peter,

Such interesting information! You make we want to learn even more, for those rare instances when I do get drilled by a customer, and for my own professional knowledge, of course.

It was always my understanding that with Stainmaster, the fibers are made by melting down bits of colored nylon, already solution dyed and containing the treatment, which are then extruded into one long strand and woven into BCF fibers. Thus, having permanent stain resistance.

With other soil treatments, such as Scotchguard, the empty dye sites are topically filled in after the fact, which cause them to be pulled out after cleanings.

As always, please correct me if I'm wrong.

My curiousity is with the products selected by Lees to have their "25-year, no exclusion stain warranty". There are a variety of different fibers and brands and types involve in this line, yet they are all supposed to repel every type of stain. Thoughts?

Tia

[Peter Kodner]

Tia, Stainmaster and equivalents have always been applied after undyed yarn is dyed. It actually works best on a Kuester or continuous dye range. As it is mill applied, DuPont and Allied always had significant construciton reuirements for the carpet it was applied to to gain the warranties.

Scotchguard and Teflon are totally different chemistry and do no fill the dyed sites. Their main purpose, as far as mills are concerned, are for lubrication. The stain repellent is an added benefit. If these products were able to fill the dye sites, the quantities in which they are applied would cause an nightmare in terms of attracting and holding soil. Have you ever seen carpet regularly cleaned with a topical applied every cleaning? It is a haven for airborne and tracked in soil!

It also is not applied to solution dyed fiber, or more accurately, pigmented fiber.
Conventional dyes are not used for solution dying, but colored pigment chips are melted into the polymer before extrusion into fiber. When the color is a part of the fiber, much more aggressive chemicals can be used for cleaning. I am not familiar with the Lees piece you are referring to so I would have to see the technical info to see if they are in fact doing something different. It may be that they are adding the Stainmaster to a solution dyed yarn system.

I iterate, nylon only has an affinity for acidic staining agents. All nylons dyestuffs are acidic (remember solution dyeing does not use dyestuffs). Stainmaster, et al, fills the dye site spaces remaining after dyeing. The smooth fiber does not provide and areas where staining agents can bond and/or bond to the fiber surface. If you read the fine points in warranties, you will find all excluded item,s are acidic in nature.

[ortiz34]

FlooringGirl said My curiousity is with the products selected by Lees to have their "25-year, no exclusion stain warranty". There are a variety of different fibers and brands and types involve in this line, yet they are all supposed to repel every type of stain. Thoughts? Tia

They cost more $$$$$, therefore they gamble on the warranty never being claimed. Claims on wear with a nicely constructed type 6.6 filament nylon are very rare.

[FlooringGirl]

Ortiz34 - much of the Lees line has nothing to do with 6.6 nylon. There is a huge mix of fibers and products in the line they back with this super warranty.

Tia