Is it possible to vacuum frieze WITHOUT damaging it?

mcurrin · February 25, 2010, 05:05 PM

Peter Kodner said

To make it even more confusing, there has been a major change (about 25 years ago is when it first started showing up in carpet)in the way yarn is made from fiber that contributes to the condition. Who knows what I am referring to?

The move from autoclave to continuous heat set??

Mike

Bill Watson · February 25, 2010, 05:20 PM

Some additional information regarding what one manufacturer has to say about vacuums and vacuuming.
Includes some recommendations about frieze.

Carpet, Flooring - Beaulieu, Bliss, Coronet, Hollytex

Peter Kodner · February 25, 2010, 06:27 PM

Mike, good answer but I don't think going to Suessen and Superba is the reason. I was going for air entangling.

FlooringGirl · February 25, 2010, 07:52 PM

I'm a flooring person with a frieze in most of my home. When we got the new carpet a few years ago, I decided to get a new vacuum cleaner. Because we have a dog that sheds a lot, my choice was a Bissell Revolution Pet vacuum. Got it at Best Buy. It was under a couple hundred $ at the time. Upon my purchase, I did not notice this feature, but it does give me the option to turn the brush on or off. Have tested it both ways, and either way, it's a weekly container of dog hair downstairs, and another one upstairs. This is what I love about frieze - lighter carpet, black dog, can't see all that hair, but find out it's there when sweeping!

By the way, I have a cheap polyester frieze, because we know we'll have to replace it in a few years - our dog is old and has skin problems, scratches on herself a lot, which causes her to dig into the carpet every time her paw comes down off her body. She's blown out (untwisted) the fibers in 3 spots, one next to my dining room chair and two in the computer room, which shows you where she likes to hang out, next to mama! But, we expected that ...

Back to the vacuum, besides the few times I tested it without the brush to see if it picked up as much as with it on, the beater brush is always on, 99% of the time. It's my opinion that you don't need to worry about fuzzing, etc. unless you have a stapled yarn product rather than a continuous filament yarn product, in which case shedding is normal for a period of time. You state that you have BCF nylon, which means you shouldn't have this problem. The only other thing that would contribute to quick fuzzing would be a low fiber twist factor, but without looking up the product, I'm guessing you're okay there, judging by the specifications you provided.

Besides where our carpet was blown out by the dog, it looks great after almost three years, despite what it is. And, I recommend the vacuum mentioned above!

Tia

FlooringGirl · February 25, 2010, 07:57 PM

Peter Kodner said

To make it even more confusing, there has been a major change (about 25 years ago is when it first started showing up in carpet)in the way yarn is made from fiber that contributes to the condition. Who knows what I am referring to?

I'm stumped ... what is air entangling? I've heard of it before, but teach me!

Tia

ortiz34 · February 26, 2010, 05:35 AM

You shouldn't have much shedding with a beater bar at a higher setting ( easy vacuuming, but can still feel a little pull on the cpt) from an anso BCF fiber.

You're carpet "may" have an issue. I'm not a inspector, but in retail and have never heard of this being a problem. I have a tuftex frieze bcf that doesn't fuzz when vacuumed

Tandy Reeves · February 26, 2010, 06:08 AM

Folks for you that say a brush/beater bar vacuum will work fine, I ask you to compare apples to apples. As an inspector I have inspected many carpets that were doing exactly as Misty75 describes what her carpet is doing.

I am sure other inspectors can tell you the same. The carpet is not a staple she has told us it is a 100% BCF nylon. In your opinions is one vacuum good for all carpets?

Chris Mha · February 26, 2010, 06:28 AM

ortiz34 said

You shouldn't have much shedding with a beater bar at a higher setting ( easy vacuuming, but can still feel a little pull on the cpt) from an anso BCF fiber.

You're carpet "may" have an issue. I'm not a inspector, but in retail and have never heard of this being a problem. I have a tuftex frieze bcf that doesn't fuzz when vacuumed

The last piece of Tuftex I installed had a flyer rolled up inside, " Do not use a vacuum with a beater bar". I think I have it laying around here. I'll look for it.

Tandy Reeves · February 26, 2010, 06:31 AM

Here are three pictures of what I think is happening to her carpet. Notice it is just random tufts that are totally untwisted.

rgfloor · February 26, 2010, 09:39 AM

OK Tandy, tell the boys and girls what you are seeing!!

Use to see this once or twice a week, now not so much. Hard surface is 60-70% of what I do.

Tandy Reeves · February 26, 2010, 10:58 AM

What you can see in the three pictures is two different yarn systems. They are heat set and non heat set. If you look close you can see both in action. The heat set frieze tufts are tightly wound and then the fuzzy looking ones have completely bloomed out and are entangled. A slight amount of tip blooming can be expected, but complete loss of twist is not good.

When I looked at the consumers vacuum, it had stiff long brushes that were combing out the non set tufts. I just thought as I was typing this that I cannot recall ever seeing a frieze made from staple yarns. If I recall right they have all been BCF. Spend some time looking at the tufts and you will understand.

I remember when autoclave and surperba came out and what a wonderful yarn system we had. That was in the days the mills made quality and not commodity carpet. Man did I get off topic. Sorry

Peter Kodner · February 26, 2010, 11:03 AM

Anyone check out Woot today? They are selling carpet destroying machines real cheap

rgfloor · February 26, 2010, 11:33 AM

FlooringGirl said

I'm stumped ... what is air entangling? I've heard of it before, but teach me!

Tia

This is in no way to reflect on Tia!!

To me it is a sad commentary on the flooring business that most sales associates have only rudimentary knowledge of carpeting or any flooring for that matter.

Here is a definitiuon of air entangling.

"Air-entangling (also known as intermingling, commingling or heathered)
A method of producing yarn by combining two or more BCF fibers together. Fibers are "locked" together via air jets at regular or irregular intervals. The process is used to obtain special effect yarn (i.e., mixing dye variants to get heather effects upon subsequent dyeing or combining different colors of solution dyed fiber). Various air-entangling processes exist making it possible to produce a wide range of aesthetics in finished yarns, from highly blended, near solid looks to yarns where individual colors are accented and color separation mimics that of plied yarns."

It was taken from Antron fiber Company website:Carpet and Fiber Glossary - A | Antron®

They have a lot of good information on fiber available there.

And for retailers Antron will send out a rep to train the salespeople. http://antron.net/content/resources/ant06_02.shtml

Peter Kodner · February 26, 2010, 01:53 PM

Most commonly you will see an area where the number of filaments used in a specific yarn bundle is feed through eyelets that get narrower as they near the air jet (think of the guides on a fishing rod). The air is a very high pressure, very thin stream that entangles the yarn (the best analogy I can come up with is felting with air instead of a needle). The location where the air is shot are referred to as tac points. These are varied depending on the finished yarn being made. After the singles yarns are made, they are plied for whatever the ply count of the finished material, i.e. 2,3, 4 or more ply.

crmitchell · February 26, 2010, 07:16 PM

Peter, thanks for the kind words but there are a lot of people smarter than I involved in developing the CR program - and it is still under development. We still have a long way to go, as it is not perfect and never will be.

The testing is not free, as it is involves some pretty high tech equipment and takes time. The contract lab used by CRI invested a huge amount of money over several years in developing the technology and protocols. They have been criticized for actually making money form the program, but that is why they are in business. Any other lab is invited to bid for the CRI business, but none have invested the time and $ to be able to do so.

re the vacuums, we (at Shaw) believe the correct vac for the friezes and shags is the canister vac. They develop a lot of suction and the nozzle fits tightly to the carpet. We would welcome any company that would offer a residential machine with a beater bar, no brushes, as the shaggy stuff is apparently here to stay for a while. Here is a great market opportunity for some smart company if they could just quit copying each other and look at the need !