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Stainmaster versus R2x



"Stainmaster versus R2x," in the Carpet Q&A forum, begins: "I am looking for new carpeting and would like your opinion on R2x versus Stainmaster. I was under the impression ..."

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Old March 2, 2011, 12:46 PM   #1
Lindy
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Stainmaster versus R2x


I am looking for new carpeting and would like your opinion on R2x versus Stainmaster. I was under the impression that Stainmaster was better, but today someone told me that Stainmaster is only applied to the exterior of the yarn while R2x penetrates the entire yarn and therefore provides better protection. Is this correct? Is there a great deal of difference between the two?
Thanks for the input!!

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Old March 3, 2011, 04:37 AM   #2
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Lindy said View Post
I am looking for new carpeting and would like your opinion on R2x versus Stainmaster. I was under the impression that Stainmaster was better, but today someone told me that Stainmaster is only applied to the exterior of the yarn while R2x penetrates the entire yarn and therefore provides better protection. Is this correct? Is there a great deal of difference between the two?
Thanks for the input!!
Who ever told you that is WRONG
Stainmaster is the only type 6.6 nylon on the market
Although I am not positive about R2x applying method if it's extracted or topically applied, I do know that all the teflon/lotus oils and such are built INTO the fiber when produced with Stainmaster BCF fibers
You got some real backwards advice.
Although R2X is a nice stain and soil defender, it's still a "generic" unbranded type of yarn so to speak(unless it says ANSO nylon which is a branded (ie; better true warranty type 6 nylon).

Stainmaster has a 800 customer support for any issues/stains with your carpet and they REALY back up their warranties. Most claims/issues with a generic unbranded fiber IE scotchguard/R2X gets possibly one year of true coverage, after that every issue to the mills seems will come back to you as "normal" for that carpet. Not so with Stainmaster, this coming from experience over a decade of selling both.

Let me ask you this, are you getting this advice from one of the home centers/home depot?


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Old March 3, 2011, 06:21 AM   #3
Lindy
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Stainmaster versus R2x


Thank you for your response ortiz34. I actually got the information from someone at Shaw when I submitted a question through their website. It sounded strange to me because it directly contradicted what a salesperson at Lowe's told me and that is that Stainmaster is good because it covers the entire yarn and not just the surface.
I am looking to replace the carpet on the stairs and bedrooms of my home and want something that will wear well and resist stains/dirt. Aside from the style of the carpet (I'm leaning toward a twist), what are the top three things that you think I should look for?

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Old March 3, 2011, 06:24 AM   #4
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Rugged, Strong Anything Goes Flooring by ShawMark

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Old March 3, 2011, 06:43 AM   #5
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There is nothing better on the market than MOHAWK Dupont Sorona SMARTSTRAND,

Mohawks SMARTSTRAND cleaning abilities built into the fiber, Topically treated fiber lose their cleaning abilities approx after the 2nd to 3rd hot water extraction cleaning.

The SmartStrand Challenge

They even Guarantee this product on stairs......

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Old March 3, 2011, 08:26 AM   #6
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Here goes another can of worms...

Some basics: nylon fiber are engineered with irregularities on the surface resembling fissure which are aptly named "dye sites". They are not visible tot he eye.

All of the advanced generation stain repellent systems (Stainmaster & R2X included) are for the purpose of filling any availability of the dye sites to accept more dye and all are applied after the carpet is dyed. It is moot to talk about penetration or how much iof the fiber is treated when the application process is clarified. All products made for this purpose, in my experience, perform as advertised, but read the exclusions included in all warranty language.

Teflon or Scotch guard are applied to fiber/yarn as a lubricant, not specifically for any moisture repelling properties. Any excess of these products evaporate during the various drying operations carpet is subjected to.

Respectfully replying to Ortiz, Shaw owns Anso now so any nylon made in those plants are to the old Anso specification. If you find a Shaw product with a Shaw nylon listed, it has come from an Anso plant. To my knowledge, Shaw does not purchase anything but very highly specialized yarn systems for their residential products. I have never experienced any type of problem, as either a flooring contractor or an inspector, attributable to if the fiber is type 6 or type 6,6. There are quite a few independent research papers that evaluate this question and the unanimous conclusion is both work with equal efficacy for carpet.

Respectfully replying to Isabella, the question is about nylon stain/soil repellents. Smartstrand is a completely different fiber that does not use any of these treatments due to it inherently different characteristics. I don't agree or disagree with your advocacy, which I know to be borne out of your experience. I am still withholding any judgment of it as the only knowledge I have is research, marketing info, anecdote and looking at samples at this point.

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Old March 3, 2011, 09:05 AM   #7
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Peter Kodner said View Post

Respectfully replying to Ortiz, Shaw owns Anso now so any nylon made in those plants are to the old Anso specification. If you find a Shaw product with a Shaw nylon listed, it has come from an Anso plant. To my knowledge, Shaw does not purchase anything but very highly specialized yarn systems for their residential products. I have never experienced any type of problem, as either a flooring contractor or an inspector, attributable to if the fiber is type 6 or type 6,6. There are quite a few independent research papers that evaluate this question and the unanimous conclusion is both work with equal efficacy for carpet.

Shaws stapled nylon that they were using(before they went gung-ho with anso) like the Kathy Ireland line and such, a few years ago gave us a few issues and headaches. Oh yes, I also did know shaw owns anso, I live and breathe my friend, live and breathe.
Most of the unbranded bcf is now anso like you said, without the anso name, which = better value $$, but also = less of a "true" warranty coverage.
Who's gonna get better support 5 years from now if there is an issue.
The customer who buys a shaw bcf unbranded for $23 yd or the same rug with an ANSO label for $26yd?
Light reflects the soiling off of type 6.6 nylon different than a type 6, hence it hides soiling better, and anyone buying floorings big concern is soiling, not staining


Stullis those shawmark carpets are just IDENTICAL crossovers of other shaw products mixing in Queen/Coutore/Philly, however they warranty them on halls and stairs, but you do pay more for the name (anything goes) and warranty. I have samples of almost every one of those in my store, without the trustmark label/rack.


For stairs if you go with a twist I would go with a frieze or something with a nice twist to it. It shows less footprints and wears well.
You could also go with a loop/cut/loop (kinda looks like a pindot look), it's tight/dense/vacuums easy and wears nice
Nylon has a high melting point so with friction from walking and abrasive wear it will last.

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Old March 3, 2011, 09:19 AM   #8
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ortiz34 said View Post
Light reflects the soiling off of type 6.6 nylon different than a type 6, hence it hides soiling better, and anyone buying floorings big concern is soiling, not staining.
I'm not being argumentative here and was not being sarcastic in my previous post, but could you cite your source for this comment?

My sources for disagreeing with this statement are the multitude of fiber manufacturers (DuPont, BASF, Monsanto & Allied) programs I attended for most of the years I was contracting (78-96). I have been taught consistently that reflection and refraction are the result of fiber cross section and nylon type has no bearing on this. Virtually all residential carpet fibers are tri-lobal/delta shaped and have similar if not identical reflection/refraction properties.

I do not have all answers, sincerely hope I do not present that I do and post this to learn if my knowledge is out of date. This said, I do need some sourcing to vet conjecture from what was shown to me by experts in their fields, i.e. the fiber company chemists and engineers.

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Old March 3, 2011, 09:22 AM   #9
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Peter Kodner said View Post
I'm not being argumentative here and was not being sarcastic in my previous post, but could you cite your source for this comment?

My sources for for disagreeing with this statement are the multitude of fiber manufacturers (DuPont, BASF, Monsanto & Allied) programs I attended for most of the years I was contracting (78-96). I have always been told reflection and refraction are the result of fiber cross section and has no bearing on nylon type. Virtually all residential carpet fibers are tri-lobal/delta shaped and have similar if not identical reflection/refraction properties, again not affected by nylon type.

I do not have all answers, sincerely hope I do not present that I do and post this to learn if my knowledge is out of date.

no arguments here Peter, this was from my Stainmaster workshop so consider the source (shrugs)

Here is some other info
Nylon 6,6 and Nylon 6 are the most versatile commercial nylon products in the market having a vast range of uses depending upon the need. Both the products are used for engineering applications though Nylon 6,6 is more used for its ductility and tensile strength. Nylon-6,6 which is also known as Polyamide 6,6.is the semi-crystalline polyamide commonly used in fiber applications such as carpeting, clothing, and tire cords. Nylon 6 which is also known as Poly-caprolactum has many individual uses. The numerical nomenclature for nylon is derived from the number of carbon atoms in the diamine and dibasic acid monomers used to manufacture it. The ratio of carbon atoms is what gives each nylon type its unique property characteristics.

Nylon 6 is used more for products like Bristles for toothbrushes, sutures for surgery, manufacture of hosiery, knitted garments. Also recently there had been more products developed using Nylon 6 which includes large variety of threads, ropes, filaments, nets, and tire cords.

Nylon 6,6 has a tighter molecular structure than nylon 6 due to a higher level of hydrogen bonding and maximum alignment between molecular chains, creating a tighter structure that better resists crushing, matting and stain penetration. Nylon 6 does not have this level of internal bonding, resulting in a more open structure. Nylon 6,6 gives carpet the unique balance of strength, elasticity and durability it needs to survive in commercial installations.
The stiffness of nylon 6/6 can be improved up to 10 times. The use of internal lubricants improves on the already excellent wear resistance and friction properties on nylon 6/6. Its versatility allows it to be used in almost any application that requires high physical strength, ductility, heat resistance and chemical resistance.
Read more at http://www.articlealley.com/article_...ktrack=kcplink

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Old March 3, 2011, 09:40 AM   #10
Daris Mulkin
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I totally agree to what he said. What did he say??

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Old March 3, 2011, 09:41 AM   #11
Peter Kodner
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A good article- not too geeky

A couple other considerations to necessarily for the consumer, but interesting nonetheless:

dyeability: type 6 does not have the temperature or duration requirements of 6,6. For regular carpet constructions this is not a factor as both exhibit excellent color fastness properties. There are some specialized applications where it is advantageous to use the type 6 for some additional color fastness reasons. For day in day out yarns, there is a significant cost savings with 6 in manufacture.

renewability: it is far easier to re-polymerize type 6 back into virgin caprolactam. The reality today is re-polymerization is still more expensive that raw materials for fiber production. The gap has narrowed considerably and will continue to do so. Most mills have recognized the need to add recycling to their mix not only form a PR standpoint but as a practical business model improvement to be prepared for scarcity of raw materials and increasing cost. Oil was over $100 per barrel yesterday. Know what that does to fiber costs?

I truly do not have a horse in this race, other than being a fairly staunch nylon advocate! Both nylons types have performed extremely well (in proper constructions) for carpet. I have specified and installed huge quantities of both types as well. I still have not had any experiences or outside verifications (other than marketing information from specific fiber manufacturers) that nylon type is anything other than a red herring for the consumer. My experience remains that maintenance is the determining factor in successful appearance performance.


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Old March 3, 2011, 10:06 AM   #12
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Respectfully replying to Isabella, the question is about nylon stain/soil repellents. Smartstrand is a completely different fiber that does not use any of these treatments due to it inherently different characteristics. I don't agree or disagree with your advocacy, which I know to be borne out of your experience. I am still withholding any judgment of it as the only knowledge I have is research, marketing info, anecdote and looking at samples at this point.

I was giving option for VALUE and PRICE, along with CLEANING ability

No difference from Stainmaster Vs Rx2

Smartstrand would put all to shame

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Old March 3, 2011, 10:19 AM   #13
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Isabella Flooring said View Post
I was giving option for VALUE and PRICE, along with CLEANING ability No difference from Stainmaster Vs Rx2 Smartstrand would put all to shame
Again, as I respectfully requested of Ortiz, let's document our comments or qualify them as "OPINIONS". This is not a negative criticism of opinion as they certainly have validity in their own context. Let us merely put them in the correct context.

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Old March 3, 2011, 10:32 AM   #14
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Just a quick note for you all...

Shaw only owns the American side of Anso,
Kruse Carpet has the other........

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Old March 3, 2011, 10:34 AM   #15
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Krause? Good info to know! Thank you!

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