"Is This a Design Flaw in the Schluter Drain?," in the Ceramic and Stone Q&A forum, begins: "I have a documented record of what I percieve to be a design flaw in the Schluter Drain body.
You ..."
I have a documented record of what I percieve to be a design flaw in the Schluter Drain body.
You all know we sell Schluter and other styles, this is not to blackball Schluter as our sales are great, it is to offer documentation and pictures showing an issue I have long feared.
I will not proceed without a Mod or Jims permission.
Please advise.
Location: Today....Under the Wainbow , Tomorrow...Who Knows?
Posts: 4,971
H Scott said
I have a documented record of what I percieve to be a design flaw in the Schluter Drain body.
You all know we sell Schluter and other styles, this is not to blackball Schluter as our sales are great, it is to offer documentation and pictures showing an issue I have long feared.
I will not proceed without a Mod or Jims permission.
Please advise.
Hugh, you can phrase it as asking for information, or as your opinion. It is usually best to not declare it as fact, unless you can PROVE it by independent sorces.
Also know others may disagree with ya!
And Schluter or others would have the right to refute anything you say.
I installed this job in Feb of 2008, it was for a neighbor and he is a big guy, about 450 lbs.
I was concerned when I installed it that the Schluter drain could not support his wieght. I even dreamed about him setting his heel in the drain center and that plastic connecting "o ring" collapsing, that is how concerned I was.
My dreams and fears were confirmed today, his ex-wife called and said the tiles around the drain had come loose. I went and inspected it and found the tiles loose on one side of the drain, the side he would set his heel while standing in the shower.
Detail:They have been divorced for about 1 year, she said it felt funny a few months after install but they were both having personal issues and did not have time to deal with the floor and the house was in dispute.
Issue:When I pressed on the right handlower corner of the drain cover there was downward movement, enough to break the slate 2x2s, not only did the movement break the slate free from the mesh, it broke a tile. The mesh is still applied to the floor and the tile, so that indicates the the movement was enough to break the bond the thinset had on the tile.
I used unmodified thinset as Schluter suggest. I was still a kool-aid drinker in those days.....
I will post the pictures in a few hours, they are on my iphone, I need to download them and label the areas.
I gotta run right now.
Your few hours is up, Hugh. Let's see the pictures and any other documentation. Have you contacted Schluter about this? I'm not sure why the alarming and awfully broad subject title. Have you looked at many others to compare? It could be only that one failed because of some manufacturing goof. Or, for all we know, the home owner damaged it in some way that isn't due to normal use. Have you had it inspected or done any tests?
We just need a lot more info than you've supplied.
If he was still in the house I would rip the whole drain out, Since he is no longer there and I am sure Schluter will find a way to wiggle out of their warranty,(it seems they always do) I have an idea on how I may fix it.
I would calculate these issues came into play: His large frame, the use of unmodified thinset, the ring that snaps to the bottom of the drain cover cannot support the wieght, the unmodified thinset could not sustain the flex.
The .bmp will not load perhaps one of your mods can help me out.
It is 554.6 kb 425x455r it should load, I tried twice.
Thanks
Why do we have to go 'round and 'round all the time. Please, just once, read the rules. I mean actually read them.
This website is here for anyone who wants flooring information and to talk floors. That includes every segment of our industry. Because of some of the tactics you and a small handful of others have used on various flooring forums over the years, ALL flooring forums leave a bad taste in many industry member's mouths.
If you don't like someone, don't bait them into a fight. If you have had a bad experience with a person, a company or a product, share the experience, but do not try to malign them in general terms to inflame the situation and make them look bad.
No person, company or product deserves to be labeled as inherently defective or flawed without some actual research, investigation and findings that truly are documented. Your promises of of pictures, documentation and an original subject title that is designed more to hurt the company than to help your customer is not it.
Your plans to file a claim apparently mean the answer to my question, have you contacted Schluter about this, is a big NO. Instead, you came here to report to all who could see it that they have a design flaw. I know you are an installer and a retailer, but I didn't know you were an engineer or designer of these types of products, which would add some credibility to your claims.
If you aren't a designer or engineer, how would you know this is an actual design flaw? If you haven't hired an independent and qualified inspector to look at this, how can you claim it as a design flaw? If you haven't asked Schluter to help you resolve this problem, how can you expect us to believe you are trying to help your customer, rather than just trash a respected company? And, if you haven't actually watched your customer take a shower, then how could you possibly know the positioning of feet, or how much pressure was used on the heel as opposed to the balls of the feet? How do you know a stool or small bench wasn't used that put far more pressure per square inch on a part that wasn't designed for that much pressure? Where is the documentation and testing results that show design flaw and not mis-use or installer error? How do we know this wasn't a simple manufacturing defect?
The Floor Pro Community is here to support the floorcovering industry, not tear them down. If there is a problem, let's help fix it, not destroy those who may have contributed to it. And if they did contribute to a problem, then let's make a better effort to determine that through the use of professional means. Personal calculation, a single issue and biased opinion are just that and do NOT constitute documented fact.
I've been trying to convince many hesitant members of this industry all week at Surfaces 2012 that professionalism is so important to us that it is part of our name, The Floor PRO. Be the PRO I know you can be, Hugh, and let's help solve this issue like we have tried to do so many other times here on TFP - without making a company who WANTS to make a quality product look like they don't care.
I believe I brought up several good questions in my previous post. You haven't answered all of them. Please do. Maybe our other pros here can help, as they have so many other times, to discover what actually happened and why. If you don't like any particular member, then use a feature in your User Control Panel and add them to your ignore list.
Location: Today....Under the Wainbow , Tomorrow...Who Knows?
Posts: 4,971
H Scott said
I was concerned when I installed it that the Schluter drain could not support his wieght. I even dreamed about him setting his heel in the drain center and that plastic connecting "o ring" collapsing, that is how concerned I was.
.
Hugh, I tried to be pleasant about giving you permission to post the problem, at the same time letting you know that there would be those who disagreed with you.
Please be civil, it makes me look like a jerk if you can't.
As to the highlighted phrase above....if you were so concerned, why did you go ahead and install it?
Could you have found another product that you would have more confidence in?
Was any of the drain made from plastic or was the top and trap plus waste all made from metal.
We use Wade drains here or Howe Green both companies make complete metal ones for industrial applications where they are likely to come into contact with heavy use.
Good question RG, I installed it after discussing the issue with another pro.
We both agreed the Schluter was the way to go and at that time there were no wieght limitations for this type of issue..
I was not aware that Loxcreen (ProVa sys)used the same drain body style yet thier drain cover unit screwed into the body. So....really at that time it was our best option as opposed to mudsetting the pan. I researched it online and found no negative feedback so I over-rode my instincts and went ahead with the job.
Barry: What I perceive as the flaw is the floating snap on plastic ring pictured here:...
...was forced down into the drain body cavity when the weight of the client was presented on the corner/edge of the drain:
Jim, I apologize for biting the hook.
We all agree that Schluter is innovative and has brought to bear a new way to install showers, it saves us time and since time is money , it saves us money.
I think however that we must never stop thinking about ways to better our situations and direct this applied knowledge in such manners that we see a better aspect of the whole picture.
12Likes
Let's see the pictures and any other documentation. Have you contacted Schluter about this? I'm not sure why the alarming and awfully broad subject title. Have you looked at many others to compare? It could be only that one failed because of some manufacturing goof. Or, for all we know, the home owner damaged it in some way that isn't due to normal use. Have you had it inspected or done any tests?
