Stand and Seal Health Problems

stullis · July 19, 2006, 11:07 PM

Chuck said

If you dig aerosol grout sealers, Gundlach has one that don't kill you at all. It is California VOC compliant and everything.
CHU

I hope you don't believe that VOC compliant means that it can't be harmful.
Aerosol grout sealers are bad no matter who is hawking them.

Bill Vincent · July 20, 2006, 04:48 PM

That's a fact. Even before the health problems revealed themselves, I didn't care fo the aerosols. The way I see it, you're spraying a diluted mixture, being that you're spraying aerosol propellants, as well as the sealer, so you're not putting as much sealer onto the joints as you would with conventional sealers. Secondly, this stuff is supposed to stay on the grout, and evaporate off the tile??? Wanna bet?

Chuck · July 22, 2006, 08:06 AM

So it has been your experience that the gundlach product does not seal the grout and also does not dissipate from the tile surface? That's weird, cuz I know plenty of people using that product who have suffered none of the pitfalls you claim to have suffered as a result of using that product.

Bill Vincent · July 22, 2006, 08:29 AM

No, I've never used it, nor WILL I ever, for the reasons I specified. As for the people you know who've used it, I question how long it lasts compared to conventional sealers, even though you're actually paying between 2-3 times the amount (for a diluted mixture) that conventional sealers cost, ounce for ounce.

Chuck · July 23, 2006, 05:31 PM

So it was all conjecture. OK.

Which tile sealer is not diluted? I don't know all that much about the chemistry involved, but I suspect every sealer on the market consists of both sealant solids and carrying agents.(diluted?)

I would consider it a tremendous favor if you would explain how they work.

Thanks Bill.

Chuck.

p.s. Spectralock rules!

Bill Vincent · July 23, 2006, 06:01 PM

I suspect every sealer on the market consists of both sealant solids and carrying agents.

Okay-- although I'm not a chemist, lets say for the sake of argument that you're right (which I also question). Now, in the case of the aerosols, you're also adding the propellants. THAT'S what dilutes it more than it would be otherwise. Also, that's not my only "conjecture". I'd like to know how these sealers supposedly eveaporate off the tile, but not off the grout. My contention is that this claim is garbage. Because of the fact that the aerosol DOES evaporate so quickly, off both the tile AND the grout, there's not as much sealant left on the grout, which means it won't last as long as a normal sealer, and then they charge you an arm and a leg for an inferior product, which, of course, you have to use more often, which makes it even that much MORE expensive, as compared to conventional sealers.

Bud Cline · July 24, 2006, 01:02 PM

I suppose manufacturers have realized that folks these days want simple, they want fast, they want easy, they don't want to put forth any more effort than is absolutely necessary and they can't imagine the thought of getting their hands dirty so what could be easier than a spray-on product.

I think Bill is correct about his evaporation theory. If the product evaporates, then it evaporates. I don't know how a manufacturer could train that sealer to distinguish between a tile surface and a grout surface.

Chuck I think most of today's grout sealers are about 20% solids only, the rest is a carrier of some description. In the case of an aerosol if the product contains twenty percent solids then the remaining 80% must also contain some propellant thereby further diluting the product. That's my conjecture also.

But hey - what do I know?

Chuck · July 24, 2006, 07:00 PM

In the case of an aerosol if the product contains twenty percent solids then the remaining 80% must also contain some propellant thereby further diluting the product. That's my conjecture also

Thats not how things in spray cans work, Bud. The propellant is the carrying agent. If your assertion about sealers being a mere 20 percent solids is accurate, there is no reason to assume the dump on stuff offers anything the spray on does not.

CHU

Bud Cline · July 25, 2006, 12:33 PM

Thats not how things in spray cans work, Bud. The propellant is the carrying agent.

Isn't that what I just said?

I have no idea what's in those cans or what makes them work and I don't pretend to. I do think however that most things in spray cans can offer health hazards under certain circumstances. I love my cheddar cheese from the spray can by the way.

That's all I know about the subject and you won't be dragging me into any arena of castigation on a subject I have little knowledge of.

I was recently talking with a seller of commercial floor strippers and finishes that has led me wisely over the years in the area of terazzo restorations, it is he that told me most sealers of this type are twenty percent solids. I don't know and I don't care. Doesn't matter to me.

Chuck · July 25, 2006, 04:17 PM

If that is what you said, I misunderstood you. I took you to mean that the sealer started out as 20 percent solids and was then further diluted by the propellant.

Jack · July 26, 2006, 11:38 PM

Ive noticed the "New Look" as well at the HD...... Mind you Lowes has its own
version and im not so sure its all that different. i havent heard the same amount
of fuss about it but it is a stand an spray sealer, but regardless none of them are
good. I was awe struck at first by how easy it was to use but after reading
testimony after forum thread i became wary real fast.

HeresJohnny · August 11, 2006, 06:01 AM

Hey my first post here. How exciting.

I saw this stuff on display right in the middle of the isle at HD last night. The staff there has been trained to tell you that the product now includes a scent that will "warn you of any danger ahead of time". They are telling customers this is a perfectly safe product to use. No respirator on the guy on the picture. He's just holding a can and spraying it.

Bill Vincent · August 11, 2006, 05:52 PM

By the time that scent is strong enough to force you to get some fresh air, it's too late. The damage is already done.

Bud Cline · August 13, 2006, 11:49 AM

One thing that this ongoing controversy with Stand & Seal has taught me is that apparently manufacturers install certain fragrances and odors into products to warn of their danger, is this correct? I did know that this is done with natural gas. If this is being done with other products then wouldn't it be reasonable to notify the public? Just brcause some product has a strong odor and even a pungent odor I don't know that I would expect this product to kill me or my kids if I didn't first open a window.

The odor of the product doesn't mean a thing to me, I just assume that is what it takes to make the product and nowhere does this send up a red flag in my thinking.

How many consummers have no idea this is being done, if it is?

Under the circumstances I would suggest that no-one use Stand & Seal under any circumstances, the product is allegedly very very very dangerous and until something can be proven one way or the other I wouldn't trust the product or the people that market it.

BY the way....

WELCOME "Here'sJohnny" What took you so long to get here?

HeresJohnny · August 15, 2006, 06:19 AM

Bud - Thanks for the welcome.

I stumbled upon this site a while ago and stop in to look every once in a while. I guessing this site is geared more towards the pros. I'll have to write to the Admin for access to the pro forums when I get a chance.