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Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?



"Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?," in the Ceramic and Stone Q&A forum, begins: "Thursday morning - just talked to the installer and he is saying that because there has never been any tile ..."

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Old November 27, 2008, 08:45 AM   #16
Carole Moore
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


Thursday morning - just talked to the installer and he is saying that because there has never been any tile that cracked that it is NOT a substrate problem but a grout problem!!
Is this so?? Carole

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Old November 27, 2008, 08:57 AM   #17
Kman
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


I would think if there was a "grout" problem, it would be cracking all over, not just in a few isolated places. And if that was the case, why wouldn't he replace all the grout, not just a few places.

I'd bet my next paycheck, heck probably the next 10 paychecks, that it's the substrate. Installing directly to plywood, and especially installing directly to vinyl over plywood, is a recipe for failure.

In your situation, you probably don't have much to lose by letting him use the other grout, other than the fact that it's just prolonging the inevitable. I still think you'll have to tear it all out. When was this installed and what kind of warranty is offered?

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Old November 27, 2008, 09:12 AM   #18
Carole Moore
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


They are wanting to replace all the grout with Star-Quartz and say if this fails then they will stand behind another repair, and put this in writing. I guess it is less of a disruption to re-grout since there were some 84 boxes of tile throughout half of the upstairs of our home and I am distressed to think what a mess removing them will be. However, I am not willing to "stop being so fussy - just live with it" like some guy told me. I just wonder how long a period that this "stand behind warranty" will be. Ten years would be nice. :-)
Carole

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Old November 27, 2008, 11:24 AM   #19
Nick Arrera
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


Will they still be in business ?

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Old November 27, 2008, 11:46 AM   #20
Carole Moore
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


Well, I expect they will be since we are talking about a Canadian ikon who has been around for years. I am hesitant to name them but they are a department store with separate furniture/appliance stores and floor covering stores. I am looking at a sales flyer and see they do furnaces, windows and water heaters. I think they do roofs too. I believe their problem is that they are jack of all trades and masters of none. In retrospect this was a very poor choice. Caveat emptor (buyer beware). Carole

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Old November 27, 2008, 01:30 PM   #21
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


Ultimately, the choice is up to you. Obviously, you don't want to live with it, and you shouldn't have to. Yes, it will make a mess to remove all the grout, and even more of a mess to remove all the tile and grout. Although from what you're describing of their installation, I suspect that much of the tile would come loose with little effort. If the 'grout fix' fails and they stand behind it and remove all the tile, the worst could be that you'd have another mess to deal with.

However, I stand behind my original assesment, which is that eventually it'll all have to be removed, and re-grouting is just prolonging the inevitable.

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Old November 27, 2008, 03:20 PM   #22
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


I agree with Kman, don't let them put a bandage on a problem. It should be replaced and at no extra cost to you....

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Old November 27, 2008, 05:35 PM   #23
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


Carole just for fun let's try something......

Find a wooden broom stick handle or a plastic handled screwdriver so that you can use one of those handles to tap on every tile with. Just tap gently (and repeatedly if necessary) but hard enough to hear a report. Does the tapping make a hollow sound or a solid sound?

A solid sound is a good thing. A hollow sound says that the tile is no longer bonded to the substrate.

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Old November 27, 2008, 06:19 PM   #24
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


cproader said View Post
I agree with Kman, don't let them put a bandage on a problem. It should be replaced and at no extra cost to you....
Sometimes I wonder about you guys.

The homeowner should pay the additional cost to bring the subfloor up to the needed condition if that is what is the problem. She should also pay to have the tile installed on a proper substrate.

She should not pay for the removal/disposal or what was include in the original job.

Are you prepared to bear the additional cost of doing the job correctly Carol? Otherwise you are just going to back at square one again.

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Old November 27, 2008, 06:31 PM   #25
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


their warranty states that "cracking due to deflection or other failure in the substrate is not covered".
Carole M
That statement makes me wonder if they wanted to do more and she didn't want to pay for it.

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Old November 27, 2008, 07:22 PM   #26
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


their warranty states that "cracking due to deflection or other failure in the substrate is not covered".
That statement makes me wonder if they wanted to do more and she didn't want to pay for it.
Rusty, I took that to mean that was the warranty for the brand of grout they wanted to use to regrout the job, not for the installation. Correct me if I'm wrong, Carole.

Scott, it sounds to me like there might have been at least some discussion about the substrate prior to the installation, since Carole mentioned that the installer said nothing needed to be done, and that he could just scuff up the linoleum. Again, Carole, correct me if I'm wrong. I would expect that if a case like this went to trial, a judge probably would find that Carole needs to pay to have the joists and subfloor strengthened to support a new tile installation. After all, she would've had to pay it if the job had been done correctly to begin with. Heck, she might have decided it wasn't worth the cost and decided to do something completely different, and save herself a lot of money in the process.

If I went to a job and installed it without checking the joists and subfloor, or checked it and installed it anyway knowing it was inadequate, then shame on me. If I tell the customer that it's inadequate and they want the installation anyway, shame on them. Doesn't matter, though, because I won't install on an inadequate floor system. I went to a house on Tuesday to check on a bathroom floor and immediately found a rotted and sagging subfloor, and 2x6 joists that looked like they spanned about 10-12 feet. Could I have installed the tile and made myself some money? Yes. Would the installation have failed? Probably very shortly thereafter. Did I tell the customer this and direct them to a vinyl installer? You betcha.

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Old November 27, 2008, 08:28 PM   #27
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


stullis said View Post
Sometimes I wonder about you guys.

The homeowner should pay the additional cost to bring the subfloor up to the needed condition if that is what is the problem. She should also pay to have the tile installed on a proper substrate.
.............I respactfully dissagree wit ya..........if I install a floor on a faulty substrate, and I have to remove the tile, I am weakening the condition of the exsisting substrate, thereby causing loosness that din't exsist before I improperly installed, then the job is mine to make right at my cost........I aint soundin righteous either, this is how a pro handles a replacement........but then it wasn't a pro who installed it to begin with, now was it.........

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Old November 27, 2008, 08:42 PM   #28
Carole Moore
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


Replying to Bud first - I tried tapping and find different noises but to an untrained ear it is difficult to say if the floor sounds hollow. I know when different people have looked at it they drag their key chains around. What they hear I don't know.
As for us turning down a proper floor prep - that is totally untrue. We have always done things the proper way and not shortchanged anything. The installer was asked if the floor was okay the way it was and he said it was fine - he would just rough up the lino.
This was a $15,000 installation 3 years ago and we have had nothing but problems since. We have already offered to pay the difference for the new tiles we chose because they were slightly more and we would be glad to pay towards the substrate upgrade but have not been asked to do so. The flooring company has left it up to their new installer and he has come up with his newest favorite thing - Quartz-Lock grout. He has done one installation, last week, so has no personal track record with it other than what a salesman has told him. I found a 1-800 # for Quatrz-Lock and will call them after the long weekend.
Carole


Last edited by Jim McClain; August 28, 2010 at 07:52 PM.
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Old November 27, 2008, 10:16 PM   #29
Kman
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


Carole, they're going to tell you that they will take no responsibility for the performance of their grout if your substrate is inadequate, just like their warranty states. I can't imagine them wanting to take responsibility for anything.

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Old November 28, 2008, 02:21 AM   #30
Nick Arrera
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Re: Quartz-Lock grout - crack proof?


I thought there was a reason they have a formula for load / stress , and deflection ..
I don't expect my customers to know my trade .. If i tell them the sub floor needs to be strengthen , and they just want it jury rigged I'll wish them good luck with the new installer .. $15,000 don't buy much today .. I would make them replace the floor and do it right .. You might want to consider having a Inspector come out and look at it for you Carole .. Better to go through the demo once and move on ..

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