Kitchen Remodel

[rashuno]

Hi everyone, i'm new to the forum.
Read a bunch of threads on this but just want some more input on my specific situation.

Looking to install ceramic tile.
Existing kitchen had laminate flooring . Pulled it up found 1/4 plywood, under that old vinyl tile.

IT is all on a concrete slab foundation (rancher style home).

Will it be possible to just lay right over the existing 1/4 plywood? I really don't want to get involved in some old vinyl (possible asbestos) tiles..

Thanks,

[Jerry Thomas]

You mean there is 1/4" plywood adhered to the slab? I would not attempt tiling without tearing everything out and then checking the slab to see why someone would do that. Sounds like something got covered over.

[rashuno]

Jerry Thomas said You mean there is 1/4" plywood adhered to the slab? I would not attempt tiling without tearing everything out and then checking the slab to see why someone would do that. Sounds like something got covered over.

Actually In this order.

1)Concrete Slab
2)Old Vinyl Tiles
3)1/4 Plywood Screwed into the Concret Slab through old VInyl Tiles
4)Laminate Flooring that I removed and want to put Ceramic down.

The Plywood is stable and Screwed in well..

Thanks again....

[Tandy Reeves]

Jerry is an outstanding flooring pro, and if he told me as he did you to remove the 1/4" plywood to see if there were hidden problems that is exactly what I would do.

I have a saying that has served me well over the years and it goes like this: "if you do not have time to do it right, when will you have time to re-do it?"

How flat and smooth is the plywood? Remember you are going to be working with a L/360 factor (length divided by 360) and you must fit your installation within those parameters.

[Jerry Thomas]

No way I could do it and charge you for it. The TCNA does not allow any 1/4" plywood anywhere in the mix underneath tile. Plus, I fail to see any sound reasoning for the 1/4" plywood to start with when a floating laminate was installed over it. It all makes me leery and a job I personally cannot condone.

The plywood may have been used to flatten out the slab, if so it would crack the grout somewhere down the road.

We have to be sure what's going on before proceeding.

[BrianM]

rashuno said Actually In this order. 1)Concrete Slab 2)Old Vinyl Tiles 3)1/4 Plywood Screwed into the Concret Slab through old VInyl Tiles 4)Laminate Flooring that I removed and want to put Ceramic down. The Plywood is stable and Screwed in well.. Thanks again....

***************************
Do what it takes to get rid of the plywood and vinyl tiles. Make sure you follow the correct rules for handling asbestos in your state.

[rashuno]

Jerry Thomas said No way I could do it and charge you for it. The TCNA does not allow any 1/4" plywood anywhere in the mix underneath tile. Plus, I fail to see any sound reasoning for the 1/4" plywood to start with when a floating laminate was installed over it. It all makes me leery and a job I personally cannot condone. The plywood may have been used to flatten out the slab, if so it would crack the grout somewhere down the road. We have to be sure what's going on before proceeding.

I'm sorry its the other way around.

Bottom is concrete, next is some vinyl Tiles, then plywood over that to cover up the vinyl tiles . The previous owner installed laminate hardwood floors over the Vinyl tiles used plywood to flatten them out .

So even if I ramset the plywood into the concrete to ensure solid foundation? What if i put concrete backer board over the plywood?

If this is not acceptable then I'll pull it all up... =\

[Tandy Reeves]

Pull it all up.

[rashuno]

Tandy Reeves said Pull it all up.

All man my wife is going to be pissed! i just connected the dining room with rest of the plywood to level it off for the tile.

this sucks!

[stullis]

It's your house and your money, if you want to leave it go for it.

As a professional or someone who wanted to do it correctly I'd recommend removing down to the concrete and then making a plan from there.

[Forbo King]

Remove everything.
You can always build up the concrete slab to have an even transition between rooms.
I'm gonna be scratching my head for a while as to why in the world someone would put 1/4 in down.
I've shot in 3/4 inch plywood to do nail down wood jobs, but even that has it's risks.

Concrete+plywood= a big no no in my experience.
Steve

[Jerry Thomas]

rashuno said All man my wife is going to be pissed! i just connected the dining room with rest of the plywood to level it off for the tile. this sucks!

I don't know what your budget is but you can install DITRA XL over the slab to gain you back the 1/4" you lost.

[Kman]

Forbo King said Remove everything. I'm gonna be scratching my head for a while as to why in the world someone would put 1/4 in down. Concrete+plywood= a big no no in my experience. Steve

I'm wondering if the 1/4" was put in to gain some height and match the floor in an adjoining room.

And I agree with everyone else. 1/4" ply is not stable enough to be included in a tile installation. Not to mention, if you have small voids between the plywood and vinyl tile underneath, then you will have movement, which will cause big problems for your new floor. Sorry.

[rashuno]

Kman said I'm wondering if the 1/4" was put in to gain some height and match the floor in an adjoining room. And I agree with everyone else. 1/4" ply is not stable enough to be included in a tile installation. Not to mention, if you have small voids between the plywood and vinyl tile underneath, then you will have movement, which will cause big problems for your new floor. Sorry.

It seems as if the tile beneath the 1/4" ply is asbestos, but it is very solid. I think thats why they put the 1/4" on top and then laid laminate Hardwood Parque flooring on it. My wife is against removing the asbestos. So if we use Ditra over the plywood would that be a stable enough membrane for the ceramic? any more thoughts? I do however apprecaite the professional opinions and would remove it to concrete slab ( i know its the right way to do it), but will this alternative (using ditra) be a possible succesful installation?

[stullis]

The plywood has to go even with the ditra. If the tile underneath is really solid you might be able to use the ditra over that but in all likelyhood it isn't as solid as you think.