ceramic over 2 layers of asbestos tile?

Peter Kodner · January 24, 2010, 12:07 AM

Scrape the area you take up each weekend. Check with you local city to see if there are any special requirements to dispose of small quantities. It sounds like you are going to do 50 sq ft or less each work period. As old as the original job is, it may well be an asphalt emulsion holding the bottom layer.

BTW was the adhesive checked when the tile was tested? Both layers?

I have had mixed experiences with dry ice. More than a few jobs where it did not help at all. It is certainly worth a try though.

yazz100 · January 24, 2010, 07:14 AM

barrycarlton said

Where are you at in the country?
With work so slow in many parts, if there is one of our fine members in your area, they may be in a position to aid you.

Geez I didn't even think of that. It would be fabulous if one of you were nearby.
I live in Hasbrouck Heights, NJ. Next town from Hackensack very close to the Giants Stadium. If any of you are close, or know someone, please do let me know.

just tile · January 28, 2010, 07:40 PM

you don't want to paint the floor. paint is a bond breaker.put some dry patch on the glue,' it will make it easier to scrape up. another installer told me you can use cornmeal instead of dry floor patch, but i've never tried it. good luck.

yazz100 · January 29, 2010, 08:01 PM

TO be honest I never thought of having the adhesive tested when I had the tile tested, so it could very well be asphalt. Is there any way to tell other than testing? I'm going to give removing this stuff a shot...haven't been able to yet due to my overtime at work. If the adhesive is asbestos is it easily distributed into the air? Would the dry patch hinder particles from becoming airborne?

FlooringGirl · January 29, 2010, 09:44 PM

Why are people recommending that this person remove the asbestos on his own? With a heat gun, no less, which activates the dormant chemicals!

No wonder Jim reposted the disclaimer of this website.

Asbestos is nothing to mess with - if the tiles are down tight, by all means go over them. The solution of usind Ditra is a good one, you won't have much increase of floor height.

Two things about asbestos tile: my home has three stories of it, built in the 1950s in beautiful designs. We covered it all up, didn't touch it, except in one bedroom where it was laid on tar paper (???) and we just rolled it up and got rid of it. That floor was really crunchy when you walked on it, as the tile wasn't stuck to the floor, just the paper.

Also, my father-in-law is 76 and has been monitored for many years now about the asbestos in his lungs from the old ships in the Navy. It is nothing to goof around with, you do not want to breath that dust! Nice floors, bad lungs? Not a very good trade-off.

Tia

TFP Admin · January 29, 2010, 11:44 PM

Thank you, Tia. Great post.

Jim

Jon Scanlan · January 30, 2010, 12:03 AM

FlooringGirl said

except in one bedroom where it was laid on tar paper (???) and we just rolled it up and got rid of it.
Tia

Tia this was done here years ago, 45 or so, to prevent the flooring mirroring the tongue and groove boards when they curled. Now I am showing my age

Kman · January 30, 2010, 12:07 AM

yazz100 said

I have an older home, about 70 yrs old. IN the basement there is 2 layers of asbestos tile (had it tested) over cement floor. A few (very few, maybe 8 tiles out of 420 sq feet 9x9) have a crack about 1" long but the rest appear to be firmly down.
Some tell me it's best to leave the tile and encapsulate it for health reasons.
I called the gov EPA and was told how I can remove it. Heat etc and to paint a coat of latex paint over the left adhesive...not sure if that effects new floor bonding?

Tia, some of your concerns were addressed in the original post. While it's always good to keep in mind the things you said, it's not like they're flying blind.

FlooringGirl · January 30, 2010, 08:28 PM

Kman, I am not saying the issues weren't addressed, I am saying there has been some bad and inproper advice presented throughout the thread, which may cause the poster to make inappropriate choices. We are not here to encourage poeple to do the wrong thing, and some posters have given bad suggestions.

Thanks, Jim! I was on a roll ...

Tia

FlooringGirl · January 30, 2010, 08:39 PM

Hey Jon,

This floor was on a subfloor in a newly built home. I could ask the builder why this room was different from all the others, but he is still so distressed over the death of his love from 60 years that he is is another world now. He built a number of homes, but this is the one in which they lived. He was happy we bought it, as he built the one next door where my father-in-law has lived forever, and where my hubby grew up. The guy was close to drinking himself to death on serious liquor binges after his wife passed, so the kids put him in a home and sold us this house.

Sorry, you all know I ramble ...

Tia

Jon Scanlan said

Tia this was done here years ago, 45 or so, to prevent the flooring mirroring the tongue and groove boards when they curled. Now I am showing my age

duneslider · February 4, 2010, 09:56 PM

Not trying to be a jerk or anything but nobody suggested anybody do anything illegal, wrong, or dangerous. This person clearly has done their research on asbestos. It isn't illegal for a home owner to remove their own old asbestos flooring, at least not everywhere. If this person lives in California they probably can't do it on their own but they probably can't breath without the proper permits either. Anyway, heat, next to a large mechanical scraper, is the best way I know of to loosen old vct. I would assume someone who knew their floor contained asbestos would also know to wear a respirator while working in the area.

Yes you can have your flooring tested for asbestos. It usually doesn't cost a lot to have it tested. There are probably several testing locations close to you, try googling asbestos testing and your state.

Honestly, it is a lot of work tearing out vct (my opinion here). I would get some removal quotes first.

BrianM · February 5, 2010, 10:01 AM

GENERAL RULES FOR REMOVAL OF RESILIENT FLOOR COVERING
(excerpt from http://www.rfci.com/files/pdf/RFCIRecommended9-04.pdf )
When following the Recommended Work Practices there are several general rules to follow:
􀀹 Never sand, dry scrape, drill, saw, beadblast, or mechanically chip or pulverize any resilient flooring, backing, lining felt asphaltic "cutback" adhesive, or other adhesive to remove them from the floor. See "Warning Statement" on page one.
􀀹 Unless positively certain the product you intend to remove is a non-asbestos-containing material, you must presume it contains asbestos. Regulations may require that the material be tested to determine asbestos content.
􀀹 Removal of existing floor covering should be considered the last alternative.
􀀹 Use a vacuum equipped with HEPA filter, disposable dust bag, and metal floor attachment (no brush).
􀀹 All sheet floor removals must be done using detergent solution.
􀀹 All felt scraping must be done wet.
􀀹 Prior to removal, all tile must be wetted (except in cases where heat will be applied).
􀀹 Do not dry sweep.
􀀹 Material removed must be placed in heavy-duty impermeable bags at least 6 mils thick or in a leak-tight container, properly labeled and disposed of in an authorized landfill.
7

yazz100 · February 6, 2010, 06:25 PM

Hi, everyone...Sorry I haven't responded in a while, but I've been doing more homework, getting estimates, etc. Spoke with the EPA, asbestos abatement contractors etc...prices to have original VAT professionally removed are just too high for me. EPA and abatement contractors advised me how to take it up myself, but I just can't fathom doing it on my own since it's such a large space. Sooo I nixed the idea and I'm looking into having IVC or possibly Congoleum Ultima being put down over the original tiles. Even though I don't really care for sheet vinyl, I wet and looked at some samples and they have come a long way since I remember and the more I thought of it I really didn't like the idea of putting the ceramic over 2 layers of existing floor... if it failed down the road I would then have to remove ceramic, cement and VAT

Thank you for all your advice. I really do appreciate it. Now to research ICV: Earthscapes, Naturcor, Flexitec, Air Step to see if it would work...whew I am exhausted already

In any case I received a lot of valuable information here, without which I may have made a very costly mistake and for that I am forever grateful. You guys rock!

mcbrides · February 7, 2010, 10:24 AM

yazz100 said

Now to research ICV: Earthscapes, Naturcor, Flexitec, Air Step to see if it would work...

We are really liking the Air Step. We looselaid a 22' piece over peel and sticks before Christmas, and we were both knocked out at how flat it laid. Seams are not glued, just seam-sealed from the top.

FlooringGirl · February 8, 2010, 09:18 PM

mcbrides said

We are really liking the Air Step. We looselaid a 22' piece over peel and sticks before Christmas, and we were both knocked out at how flat it laid. Seams are not glued, just seam-sealed from the top.

My installers have been tooting the horn on this product as well ...

I would like to respond to duneslider's post about it not being illegal to take up your own asbestos tiles - it isn't. Disposing of them carries very heavy fines, however. And, I repeat that messing with it IS extremely dangerous if you breath it in!

Tia