Holmes on Homes Fixes a Tile Floor

[Jim McClain]

I'm watching Mike Holmes, of the Holmes on Homes TV show, tackle a huge tile job. The ceramic tile was installed with unmodified thinset over a mesh lath on OSB. Grout was cracking and the tile installer, although showing some skill, started showing up late and sometimes not at all. The trims were very sloppy and in some places unfinished. The installer was apparently using very old installation technology. He finally just stopped showing up.

The tile dealer, who claimed the installer bounced a check for all the materials, came by the home owner's place looking for the installer. That's collections in action. Anyway, the installer wasn't there, but they were invited in by the home owners to look at the work. They did point out some problems and shortcuts.

This tile dealer stepped up to the plate and offered to pay for tile, sealers, adhesives and underlayment to fix their problems. They were the ones who contacted Mike Holmes and the Holmes on Homes production company, Make It Right Productions, to arrange for them to look at the project.

The old tile and mesh had to be torn out. One room came up in only 25 minutes. Ninety percent of the rectangular tile came up unbroken and undamaged. In less than a day, the tear-out was complete and all the mess cleaned up.

Mike Holmes being Mike Holmes, he had decided to replace way more than the problem area and he will be replacing all the tile with tile and hardwood, as well as tearing out the kitchen, right down to stud framing, and replacing cabinets and everything.

The second day started by installing Hardiboard underlayment. While that's going on, he's having an electrician rewire the lights, etc. in the kitchen and carpenters tearing out sheetrock. And the problem was just the tile that started at the front door and went throughout a couple rooms.

Anyway, I'll try to keep this focused on just the floors. Schluter Ditra is being installed in all the tile areas, foyer, kitchen and eating areas. There will be a cobblestone design with large format Porcelain tile. They install the Ditra first and then are leveling out a couple humps with a thinset product. Thinset is spread on the floor and onto the back of each tile during the installation of the tile.

The Floor Shop is doing the hardwood and fixing the railings. Mike has decided on a mosaic inlay for the hallway, which is a dark engineered hardwood. He says the mosaic is a type of limestone, which is surrounded smaller porcelain tiles and that's surrounded by the hardwood. Siliconized, sanded caulk was used around the tile perimeter where it meets the hardwood.

I don't know if the procedures that were followed in this episode of Holmes on Homes was correct. I've watched a lot of these shows and I don't remember seeing any of the carpet segments that included a stretcher. Of course, this is all Canadian based and it's my understanding that the installation pros in Canada don't feel a stretcher is always a must. Their counterparts here in the US of A, at least most of the pros who hang out here at The Floor Pro Community, do use a stretcher. But like I said, I don't know about the procedures used in the tile installation. There wasn't much at all shown about the hardwood install.

Tile was used on the backsplash (looked like the limestone used in the floor insets), but only laminate counter tops. Seems to me, with all the expense and quality put into the rest of the project, granite or quartz would have been the right thing to do. But that's just me. And apparently the home owners - they wanted granite. ???

The floor looked beautiful in the end. Wish I had pictures to show. The home owners were in awe and I enjoyed watching the show. But I am curious to know if any of you watch Holmes On Homes and what you think of the program and this project in particular.

R'gards,

Jim

[Kman]

I've never watched the show, but heard pretty good things about it.

Sounds like the original installer was doing a 'Jersey Mud job', which is basically metal lath stapled to the floor, then covered with thinset, then tile. From what I understand, that method is still in use in Canada, although it has failed every test performed on it by the TCNA. It's a relatively cheap and easy method to do, and apparently will survive in some tile installations, but fails in a lot of them.

As for that particular installer and his quality of work....well, there's no accounting for bad workmanship.

3/4" OSB is considered by Schluter to be an acceptable subfloor for a Ditra/tile installation. The problem with it is that it's only been tested under ideal conditions with new materials. It will usually hold up well, but I have seen and heard of grout-cracking issues. I might have pushed for another layer of plywood, or maybe Ditra XL, which will raise the tile installation to the same height as a 3/4" solid floor in most cases, as well as offer better uncoupling capabilities than Ditra.

I'll have to watch the show sometime when I can catch it.

[Jim McClain]

Kman said ... I might have pushed for another layer of plywood, or maybe Ditra XL, which will raise the tile installation to the same height as a 3/4" solid floor in most cases, as well as offer better uncoupling capabilities than Ditra.

It may have been Ditra XL. They don't provide much information on the products, unless you can read really fast when the credits scroll. I saw and recognized it and heard someone say Ditra, but it could very well have been the XL. The hardwood could have been 3/4" prefinished too. It was all flush when done. No trip zones.

Jim

[Daris Mulkin]

I don't miss his program. I even watch the reruns and the reruns when they are showed again and again. I tried to contact him once when I saw a carpet install done wrong to our standards. This time the guy pushed the iron about a foot at a time and of coarse no seam sealing or power stretcher. But I couldn't get through due to they want to know which province I lived in. It wouldn't take the USA.
But all in all it is an excellent program and yes he always finds more wrong. I wonder who pays for all of the repairs the show or the home owners?

Daris

[Dobby Tappet]

I always thought Michigan was part of Ontario. It's not A ?

Dobby

[mcbrides]

We were big Mike Holmes fans until he chose to endorse Home Depot installs here.

Have seen some carpet installations on his shows, but were not overly impressed with technique.

Screening and scratchcoat are still commonplace preps for under ceramics here, although Ditra is also becoming more common.

The guy started out as a roofer, have no idea how he ended up being a general contractor, and now he has a new show doing inspections. Given how they slap new homes together up here, he will have work forever.

We did see exterior improvements and an entryway of a house in this community that his guys did for a family with a child in a wheelchair. It was very impressive.

He doesn't have the market cornered on hugs.

D&D

[mcbrides]

Dobby Tappet said I always thought Michigan was part of Ontario. It's not A ? Dobby

That's Eh, Dobster.

[Daris Mulkin]

Actually I think Ontario is the French speaking part of Michigan wouldn't that make them furners?

Daris

[GoodHouse]

I watch the show frequently. I like the concept and I like the show.
He always makes the extra effort.

I want to know who pays for him? The show is a low budget show and some of his projects are big and take time and money. I think the homeowner pays for his services but it has to cost alot.

The biggest problem I see with the show is, he preaches "make it right" "do it right" "go the extra mile" etc. However 99% of homeowners dont want to pay for all those scenarios. So sure, we can rip everything up, install the floor with everything under the sun, use the finest products and installation techniques, but who is going to pay for them?

[Incognito]

GoodHouse said I watch the show frequently. I like the concept and I like the show. He always makes the extra effort. I want to know who pays for him? The show is a low budget show and some of his projects are big and take time and money. I think the homeowner pays for his services but it has to cost alot. The biggest problem I see with the show is, he preaches "make it right" "do it right" "go the extra mile" etc. However 99% of homeowners dont want to pay for all those scenarios. So sure, we can rip everything up, install the floor with everything under the sun, use the finest products and installation techniques, but who is going to pay for them?

**
There could be any combination of backcharges to the original contractors, insurance claims, home owners absorbing the costs and the show paying any or all of the expenses. I think from what I've seen it's unlikely that any single payer would choose the route Holmes ALWAYS takes which is complete demolition are rebuild to the highest specs. So it's fairly safe to assume there's some degree of cost sharing.

We all know how dramatically different these kinds of things get resolved in the real world. That's why we LOVE to see the guy go to the absurd extreme. Just imagine how many home owners out there will now expect this to be a common practice! Sure, just tear it down to the foundation..........no that's, not good enough. The foundation has to go as well.

[Chris Mha]

[QUOTE=Dobby Tappet;89828]I always thought Michigan was part of Ontario. It's not A ?

I have never been so insulted in my life!!!!!!!!

Just messin' with ya Dobby.

This episode was a rerun. I don't know a lot about tile and stone, but I know enough to know that it ain't supposed to come up that easy.

[mcbrides]

Daris Mulkin said Actually I think Ontario is the French speaking part of Michigan wouldn't that make them furners? Daris

Actually, Daris, the province East of us, called Quebec, is exclusively french. Sure, there are some french communities in northern Ontario and Manitoba, and even some out in the Maritimes, but for the most part, we speak the King's English here.

[Elmer Fudd]

mcbrides said Actually, Daris, the province East of us, called Quebec, is exclusively french. Sure, there are some french communities in northern Ontario and Manitoba, and even some out in the Maritimes, but for the most part, we speak the King's English here. EH!

Never heard The King say, Eh!

[mcbrides]

RG: We don't quite know where it came from, but I think "Eh" has more of an aboriginal origin than French or English. I have a number of Metis in-laws and that is just what all of them say, eh?
Deb
PS: The Metis were fathered by Louis Riel, so the Frenchman has it!

[Elmer Fudd]

My wife is from Windsor, that says it all, Eh!