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Self Leveling Compound over Black cutback



"Self Leveling Compound over Black cutback," in the Floor Preparation forum, begins: "Hello out there. First time post. I have removed some old asbestos tile (I was careful) from my basement where ..."

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Old April 16, 2012, 12:28 PM   #1
handyhokie
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Self Leveling Compound over Black cutback


Hello out there. First time post.

I have removed some old asbestos tile (I was careful) from my basement where I plan on laying down tile and laminate in the two different rooms.

Now I'm left with black cutback covering the floors, and I was wondering what prep work is recommended before putting down self leveling compound. I couldn't get anything- acetone, paint thinner - to remove this stuff.

These photos give an idea of what I'm working with. Suggestions?
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handyhokie1.jpg   handyhokie2.jpg  

handyhokie3.jpg  
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Last edited by Jim McClain; April 16, 2012 at 12:47 PM. Reason: uploaded pics
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Old April 16, 2012, 12:33 PM   #2
Daris Mulkin
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Want to be careful, the cutback may also contain asbestoes.

Daris

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Old April 17, 2012, 05:32 PM   #3
Bud Cline
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NEVER use chemicals to clean a surface to which a cement-type tile product is to be installed...NEVER.

If that floor is scraped down to where there is nothing more than a (cutback) stain in the surface you'll be fine.

Just remember that ALL SLC's require their own primer. In this case the primer is mandatory. Just be sure the primer is totally dry before going ahead. You have a twenty-four hour window to install the SLC after the primer has been installed.

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Old April 18, 2012, 08:48 AM   #4
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Bud Cline said View Post
NEVER use chemicals to clean a surface to which a cement-type tile product is to be installed...NEVER.

If that floor is scraped down to where there is nothing more than a (cutback) stain in the surface you'll be fine.

Just remember that ALL SLC's require their own primer. In this case the primer is mandatory. Just be sure the primer is totally dry before going ahead. You have a twenty-four hour window to install the SLC after the primer has been installed.

24 hour after the primer has been dried? I believe that's only the case with epoxy primers. Normal dispersion primers don't really have a maximum open time. Also it is recommended to use a gypsum based levelling compound on bituminous substrates, as it doesn't builds up shrink tension while drying.

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Old April 18, 2012, 09:03 AM   #5
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Here we go !!!

All primers I have used prior to installing SLC clearly state that the SLC should be installed inside of (within) a twenty-four hour application of the primer.

Gypsum-based products are never to be used under cementuous applications or under thinset mortar. There was a time when that was being done, but no more.

When using SLC's prior use of leveling compound is not necessary.

"Shrink-tension" is not a major concern and the only shrink-tension to be considered is actually the "surface-tension", and that also is not a concern. Small cracks will develop from surface tension but those cracks are not detrimental to any of the subsequent applications to come.

The only time overall "shrink-tension" is somewhat of a concern is with products like Gypcrete and Gypcrete uses gypsum anyway.

Gypcrete (containing gypsum) is not a good subsurface for a tile installation and this is why Maxxon has further recommendations for specific applications over their product if the surface is to receive a mortar-type adhesive (tile).

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Old April 19, 2012, 02:43 PM   #6
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Why do you feel you need an SLC?

Use a trowelable floor patch that is designed to go over cutback.

Still need to scrape the residue to a thin layer.

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Old April 19, 2012, 04:15 PM   #7
Nate Hall
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You could seal it over with Sureseal, it's made for covering cutback.http://www.themohawkgroup.com/pages/...reseal-tds.pdf

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Old April 19, 2012, 05:07 PM   #8
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Nate Hall said View Post
You could seal it over with Sureseal, it's made for covering cutback.http://www.themohawkgroup.com/pages/...reseal-tds.pdf
Still need to scrape: From the website.


Directions: Existing adhesives must be mechanically scraped down to a bare residue flat with the substrate. Do not use solvent or liquid cleaners to remove old adhesive. Floors must be clean, dry and free of any other concrete sealers, curing compounds, wax, oil, paint or any foreign matter that will interfere with a good bond.

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Old April 19, 2012, 05:11 PM   #9
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Elmer Fudd said View Post
Still need to scrape: From the website.


Directions: Existing adhesives must be mechanically scraped down to a bare residue flat with the substrate. Do not use solvent or liquid cleaners to remove old adhesive. Floors must be clean, dry and free of any other concrete sealers, curing compounds, wax, oil, paint or any foreign matter that will interfere with a good bond.
Then a GOOD razor sharp scraper can be your friend! Wear gloves or you will have blisters on your blisters. Invest in many replacement blades for the scraper, and you'll be done in less than a month! ( hopefully a lot less than a month )

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Old April 19, 2012, 06:10 PM   #10
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what's actually being leveled?

you say ceramic and laminate are being installed

can't tell from the photos what's so severely unflat that you think a self-leveling compound is the way to go

who are you consulting with--- or what makes you think SLC is the right choice?

who's going to do the actual install?

what's the thickness difference between the finished tile and finished laminate?

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Old April 19, 2012, 07:01 PM   #11
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handyhokie must be off doing the Hokey Pokey somewhere.

You put your right hand in,
You put your right hand out,
You put your right hand in,
And you shake it all about,

You do the hokey pokey
and you turn yourself around
That what it's all about.

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Old April 23, 2012, 05:29 AM   #12
handyhokie
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Hello all. I was having trouble logging into the site to respond to people's posts.

To answer some of the questions:
- Three rooms are being leveled, all the rooms are connected. One room will have laminate, the other two tile.
- I decided to level after reading that the floors shouldn't have more than 3/8" dip within 10 feet.
- I'm a DIYer, I've done everything to finish this basement myself (except for the drywall mudding/taping) myself. I'm learning as I go.

A lot has happened since I posted. I wet scraped the floor and got it down as smooth as I could (I still have some blisters). Cleaned everything up as well as I could, primed thoroughly, and put down the compound. I don't see any problems with the adhesion, but now I have some bumps that I'm planning to grind down.

I'm aware of the asbestos in this type of cutback, so I was sure to keep it wet and wore a mask/gloves/goggles while scraping.

Any suggestions are appreciated. I'll try posting pictures.

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Old April 23, 2012, 05:47 AM   #13
handyhokie
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pictures

Scraped:
handyhokie-1-scrapedfloor.jpg

Priming:
handyhokie-3-priming.jpg

Primed:
handyhokie-4-primed.jpg

Mixing:
handyhokie-5-mixingslc.jpg

Poured:
handyhokie-6-slcpoured.jpg

Last edited by Jim McClain; April 23, 2012 at 09:37 AM. Reason: uploaded pics
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Old April 23, 2012, 11:35 AM   #14
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Nice, what's the layer thickness?

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Old April 24, 2012, 05:29 AM   #15
handyhokie
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It depends on the spot, but generally around 1/8 to 1/4"

Most of it turned out fine, but there is one spot in particular that has a lump. I was checking the flatness with a 10 foot 2x6 and there are still gaps of around 1/4". I even tried lowering the high spot with a grinder, it helped a little but mainly just created a lot of dust. So I decided to put some more leveler down around that area. I'll see how that turns out tonight.

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