Laminate or Hardwood Installation Tips Anyone?

Nick Arrera · August 20, 2006, 04:14 AM

Good tip Sk .. I didn't know wood expanded towards the tongue .. Is there a reason for this ?

Floorguy · August 20, 2006, 06:05 AM

That expand towards the tongue thing, is for fastened down wood flooring. It has to do with the angle of the fastener, in relation to the tongue side of the board.

Nick Arrera · August 20, 2006, 06:35 AM

Thanks floorguy ..

Lo Down · August 20, 2006, 11:13 AM

Pictures do wonders to explain ideas. Great photos of your method sk.

Steve Olson · August 20, 2006, 10:28 PM

Thanks Lo. I put the pictures of this product here to share with others my expereince, good or bad, with a particular product. I had to learn a few things on the fly, like how to change out a damaged board, the method I will try and take a couple of pictures of, when I go back to install the bedrooms.
The installation of this product took me out of my normal comfort zone, using a method I had never before used. For example, I've never installed a wood floor, where I had to deliver the wood to the job site, and then monitor it until it shrunk from 129.12 mm to 128.88mm, before I could install it. Times are changing. 15 years ago, we took the wood to the job the day we were to install it, nailed it down, collected a check, and went on to the next job. Now, I have a hygrometer, a couple of moisture meters, dial calipers, gain coefficient charts, etc. Has the wood changed??
Perry....I don't think I ever heard that gain in a wood floor towards the tongue is limited to nail down applications. I breifly looked thru the NWFA manual. Hoadley's book, "Understanding Wood" as well as the USDA "Wood Handbook", and couldn't find a reference to your statement. Would you mind posting the source of your comment? Thanks in advance...

Lo Down · August 20, 2006, 11:17 PM

skhardwoods said

Perry....I don't think I ever heard that gain in a wood floor towards the tongue is limited to nail down applications. I breifly looked thru the NWFA manual. Hoadley's book, "Understanding Wood" as well as the USDA "Wood Handbook", and couldn't find a reference to your statement. Would you mind posting the source of your comment? Thanks in advance...

I think it's a cool relevation, even tho I don't install nail down floors. I see the reasoning behind his comment tho. The nails are put in at an angle, expansion would cause them to ride up that angle. Neato info even tho I will probably never need it.

Floorguy · August 21, 2006, 06:00 AM

Lo Down said

I think it's a cool relevation, even tho I don't install nail down floors. I see the reasoning behind his comment tho. The nails are put in at an angle, expansion would cause them to ride up that angle. Neato info even tho I will probably never need it.

Exactly, the angle of the fastener, lets it move one way but not the other.

Steve Olson · August 21, 2006, 06:17 PM

Here's a look at something that I see on laminates that can cause problems if you don't take care of it. Leaving this little piece of piece in place, will cause the back corner to raise up just a tad, and is visable in the right light.\

Before trimming...

after trimming.

This was a Pergo Presto product, that I installed today.

Steve Olson · August 21, 2006, 06:39 PM

Another use for "backer blocks"...I use them to help fit a board into a difficult spot. I use the backers to space the board out, one board, from where it is going to go. Then , I use another scrap, with the tongue trimmed down to the correct expansion, to transfer the horizontal and vertical lines. Then, just cut it out. You can see the pencil lines where I transferred my marks. It's the same method you use for direct scribing when doing vinyl, but the scrap board is the bar scribe.

Jerry Thomas · August 22, 2006, 02:45 AM

Very good tips SK, pretty clear photos too. Using those scrap spacer blocks is way easier than what I have been doing

Presto is the only Pergo product that uses the Uniclic joinery, goes in easy.

selvalee · August 22, 2006, 10:29 PM

read a few of these,
coatings of the fasteners a concern for anyone on these posts?

Steve Olson · August 22, 2006, 11:20 PM

How do you mean? Mannington spec's a nylon coated, 1 3/8" for all their staple down installs. I was under the impression that the coating actied like a glue, melted from friction as it blows thru the wood, then adds a bit of holding power.
But, then again, I was under the impression that wood expands towards the tongue due to the fact that there is more wood, but less mass. I also thought that the angle of the fastener was to increase surface area of fastener. I also think that wood will move up slightly before it moves in any other direction, as there is less mass there to limit expanison. I've dunked a number of products, MDF laminate, solid wood, and plywood into water to soak. Guess what? They get thicker, before they get wider or longer. and, while I'm on my rant, I'll move in the groove area, as there is also less mass, more then the tongue, but less then the board thickness by almost a third, in some case's. The tongue, then the groove move first, and second, the rest just follows.
all right, let me have....I'm ready

Nick Arrera · August 23, 2006, 02:51 AM

where do i read a few of these Selv ? talking about wood moving up Sk , we use to nail the bowling alleys 1" x 4" birdseye maple stick by stick with 3 " cut nails .. back in the day when we were sanding laquer sometimes 8 to 10 coats , and hit a nail , the drum bag would explode like a napom bomb setting off the sprinkler.. i seen those lanes raise 2 to 3 ' and twist like a roller coaster .. thats some serious movement ..

Tandy Reeves · August 23, 2006, 06:26 AM

OK sk you are on a roll. You are right about the clete or staple at an angle for more surface coverage thus more holding power. The plank is nailed down to keep the board from moving. However, it must move and therefore the grove side is not nailed and moves toward the tounge of the next plank. The cut of the plank determines the way it will swell/ shrink. Flat sawn will move across the width because the vessels are across the width. A quarter and rift cut will swell upward because of the vessel configuration. You are right the coating on the cletes and staples is friction heat activated adhesive to keep the planks from moving on them.

wood butcher · September 1, 2006, 06:34 AM

[QUOTE=skhardwoods]I recently installed a floating wood floor, over a radiant heat subfloor. The room was a bit over thirty feet wide, and to minimze the expansion requirements, I started the installation in the middle of the room. Wood flooring moves in the direction of the tongue, so by doing so, you cut your expansion room needs in half. The room was a bit over thirty feet wide, and to minimze the expansion requirements, I started the installation in the middle of the room. Wood flooring moves in the direction of the tongue, so by doing so, you cut your expansion room needs in half.

Wood moves in the direction of the tongue? Surely if its expanding it will expand from the fixed point and because the tongue has a cleat or staple through it it cant move. If it was nailed.

If its a floating floor then surely each peice expands equaly.(under the same conditions) and its the cumulative effect of expansion on each board width that needs to be accomidated. Two halves of flooring glued together makes one.

If you look at expansion it expands equally in all 3 directions (or in 2 directions for wood), but only if its free to move. If its restained itll push on the restraint and expand in the opposite direction.

The cummalitive effect of an expanding wood or laminte floor is from the centre of the room outwards. Building from the centre of the room outwards builds less stress into the floor.

Movement will be at the edges of the room as each board pushes off its neighbour from the centre. This movement is accomadated by leaving a gap and allowing any fixing to flex. Cleats and staples can bend.

If all cleats have been put in from the same direction then there will be a tendancy for the movement to be greater at the edge which was put in last. And expansion may not be equal. But only if cleats are used.

SHOOT ME DOWN......