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Tricks Of The Vinyl Trade



"Tricks Of The Vinyl Trade," in the Floorcovering Installation & Maintenance Tips forum, begins: "I didn't see any tips for vinyl installations, so here are a few I find work well. To help eliminate ..."


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Old July 5, 2006, 04:46 AM   #1
Don Monfils
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Tricks Of The Vinyl Trade


I didn't see any tips for vinyl installations, so here are a few I find work well.

To help eliminate a glue line ( where you stop and start gluing in the center) I will lay down 2" masking tape at the center line, glue to the tape, and then remove the tape before laying the vinyl into the glue.( this gives you a very clean glue line.)
When gluing the second half I leave a 1/4" gap dry zone.

If I have a long shot of vinyl I will lightly moisten the backing with a damp rag at the glue line so the adhesive does not grab so quickly at the glue line.

When installing in a cut up area like a kitchen, I will make a diagram adding 1 1/2" to each measurement. Then pre- cut the vinyl down like a jig saw puzzle piece.This usually makes it much easier to lay out and also leaves the customer with some nice size cut outs that are usable. When cutting a inside corner ,cutting a slightly rounded corner can help accidental rips.

When setting the vinyl into the glue I drop the vinyl slowly ,so I do not trap anymore air than I have to, then use a soft bristled push broom to push out any air (before walking on or rolling) and then roll. This really helps if you ever get air bubbles.

On some long rooms I will make make reference marks at each end wall (at a given distance usually the center),and also on each end of the vinyl ( at that same measurement), and roll the vinyl the long way and line up your marks. This guarantees you are lined up straight in the length of the room.

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Old July 5, 2006, 08:15 AM   #2
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Re: tricks of the trade


I like the tape idea..... that would make gluing faster too. I also do that 1/4 inch gap thing.
In addition, another thing I do to hide a glue line, is to glue on a grout line. Most vinyls I install have a grout line of some kind. I use a pencil to mark the floor where a grout line is, then when the vinyl is folded back to glue, I use my straight edge to draw a fine line to connect the two marks on the floor.
If there ever was a situation that would have allowed a bit of a glue line show, it is now hidden on the grout line instead of through the center of a tile pattern.

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Old July 5, 2006, 09:36 AM   #3
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Re: tricks of the trade


hookknife said
Its in the consumer threads," buying and tech tips for vinyl flooring in youre home", but I think well leave this one here for us, as long as admin lets us we dont want everyone knowing all our tricks hehehe
Good idea. Maybe before it gets to 3 pages someone can consolidate all the good tips into a single post and the Guide can prune the thread down. Keep doing that and before long we will have a great list for both forums. One for the consumer/DIYer and the other for The Floor Pro.

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Old July 6, 2006, 06:03 AM   #4
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


The "dry zone" has always worked for me, i leave about 1/8 inch. Ive seen some installers start spreading thier adhesive about 12" from thier fold---then when thier done spreading and ready to put it in they run some fresh adhesive in that 12" area---then when they fold the other half back its in fresh adhesive so no glue line to deal with

another tip;
when spreading adhesive in an area of a seam, keep the adhesive direction perpendicular to the seam itself, this will help guard against seam contamination with the adhesive. Just a small tip, but one that works belive it or not

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Old July 13, 2006, 02:16 AM   #5
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


for keeping a clean no-show glue-line, we paste to the roll-shadow on the floor, then 1/4 shy for the second spread.

on long shots we strike a lightly dusted chalkline and spread to it.

For cut-up areas or any questionable area we pattern scribe (armstrong felt, armstrong scribes/dividers, and a 18" and 12" bar, with the scribes set to the exact bar width, for perfect tranrfer to the sheet good when transfering the patern to the material and cutting). We pattern all 6' goods (unless the area is free of all trim and not cut-up dimensionally. Our high end builders like the for 12 foot goods as well as all the interior finish work is done before we get there, baring paint touch up. Residential is mostly pattern scribes and commercial is a mixture.

for the long shots pre-placement and placement adjustment after glueing, we knife in opposing corners net-fit, or in the case of patterned install, we ensure opposing corners are set right and tight, then the rest automatically falls into place.

I like your idea of the push broom .. .very creative.

sometimes on a dry day on a long run the adhesives tend to set up rather quickly and you got to move fast and steady.

In pattern scribing with multiple runs, we always mark the sheet vinyl perpendicular grout lines in 2 places on each end of the pattern felt, then mark the parallel seam grout line in 4 places along the length of the seam on the pattern felt (this is a double check method to ensure it is right every time and ensures you got the right grout lines in cases of a drop-pattern), this make transfer a no brainer as well as alignment to the next run.

Seams are almost always cut on the EDGE of the grout line along the sseam edge, right before where the embossing starts to rise out of the grout joint. Some manufacturers vary though in this department.

In some larger patterned areas we reverse-roll after the scribe and transfer, lay in one wall, then spread the rest up leaving less than half to a quarter to finsih ... it is a real time saver but is situational. GREAT CARE NEEDS TO BE TAKEN HERE and you need to make the roll large so it doesn not affect the overall dimentsions too much ... rolling it to tight and you can get shrinkage in length and a little gain in width.

In other areas that are patterned and knifed in as well, sometimes it is hard to get the vinyl back up to pull back for the spread. Your 6' straight edge (something every resilient mechainc should own) can come in handy. Slide it under the vinyl at a doorway then GENTLY turn it on end, which lifts the net-cut vinyl in the air 3 inches, which willl pull away from a free wall where you can get ahold of it. Again this is situational. Always check the straight edge for burrs and sharp spots.

Other times a hook knife you can gently pry a corner or a wall up but you need to be careful not to damage the goods.

A good mechainc will always have a fine metal file for sharpening their hook knives and scriber (recess and divider scriber) pins. A real money saver and time saver, especially on inlaid goods. You fine tune your hook knife so it wiull pull straight when you gently draw it accross a paste bucket lid. You fine tune the tip by filing the left or right side and front face of the point to keep the point.. I have NEVER had a hook knife out of the box that didnt need to be fine tuned in this manner. Of course ... only armstrong hook knives will do for us This is very important to the mechanic because an un-tuned hook knife will want to *wander* away from or into a straight edge, which can cause a mis-cut or try to skip up ontop the straight edge and possibly cause an injury to you. This *wandering* is a further pain when you are transfering intricate scibe to the vinyl and freehand-cutting along the score or indentation of the scribed markes transfered over from the felt paper onto the vinyl.

Always keep 2 buckets of water ... 1 clean for your vinyl rags and 1 for just your trowels. Nothing is more of a pet peeve to me than a messy trowel or an unprepared trowel in need of scraping and solvent to get it ready .. what a waste of freaking time ... Immediately after every spread, the trowel should be placed in the trowel bucket, then it is much easier to clean for the next run, next spread, or next job, although it should be cleaned as soon as possible, and preferrably before its needed, even if it isnt, and its in the water bucket, its a few seconds til its clean, as long as its a multi-purpose adhesive. We always keep a trowel bucket 2/3's to 3/4's full in each van, with a lide securely on it, strapped securely to the shelf system for this. Also make sure your help knows what rags are for what ... as far as i am concerned the trowel rags should never be near the finish rags.

Best finish and seaming rags I have found are a cotton polyester mix. Old tshirts are wonderful. and some socks and old undergarments. They should ALWAYS be white. 100% cotton can fray and leave little knits or balls in finished seams unexpectedly, so i try to stay away from 100% cotton. If you ahve a sewing factory near you, it is a very good place to pick up good clean white scrap material for rage. We buy boxes full of them for a very low price. What cant be used for seams are used for trowels or adhesive remvoval, and cleaning solvent uses.

Also we keep an emergency 10 gallon survival can of clean water for those jobs where they may have no water service, interrupted water services, or no electric, or interrupted electical services. Comes in handy more than you might think

We always keep a gallon jug of orange hand cleaner with pumice in the trucks too.

For VCT we strike control perpendiculars (using pythagorean triples to obtain the true perpendicular), then spread and install in segments. This varies slightly with the job size but the overall concept remains the same on each job. When installing vct first rows, you want to lose-lay them in next to each other. Not tight and not real loose. just laid into place next to each other. Then when you start running rows (usually 4 rows at a time) you want to utilize the compaction and loose lay method to ensure you are running square and true to all the surrounding times. This is where the inexperienced mechanic can have great difficulty and can end up with the need to cut rows and get corner *eyes* if they arent careful. Great care needs to be exercised to ensure its runnign square and true. If you see one row falling behind another you lay it a little looser, and if you see anotehr row gaining, then you need to compact it a little tighter than the rest, and a watchful eyes needs to keep an eye one each laid tile and its justification to the surrounding tile in both directions constantly throughout the installation process, because if you dont catch it quick, you may not be abble to correct it without the need for cut rows, which is pretty unprofessional in my opinion (don't be like an old installer I hired way back and think that cut rows are the way its supposed to be done). The first main run row is the most important. I can not stress this enough. Do not compact too much or lay them too loose on either perpendicular control line.

VCT cuts can be problems for some people .. especially hot cuts. Think of this as the poor mans pattern scribe lol. lay the piece exactly on top of the piece in front of the cut. use another of the same tile to measure and score the marks for the cut to tranfer the dimentions of the cut. You want to do this on each side of the cut to transfer the marks and move the cut piece to the next tile in front of the cut as you go around a corner or a jamb .. .connect the marks, ensureing you dont over-score or over-cut a corner. We use propane torches and heat the tile from the back until a knife with cut through the tile, but not to hot as to change the dimensional stability of the tile (dont melt or burn it). Sorry iof this didnt come out right but its kind of hard to explain without pictures.


Last edited by floorman67; July 13, 2006 at 03:46 AM.
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Old July 13, 2006, 02:31 AM   #6
Jon Scanlan
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Re: tricks of the trade


On some long rooms I will make make reference marks at each end wall (at a given distance usually the center),and also on each end of the vinyl ( at that same measurement), and roll the vinyl the long way and line up your marks. This guarantees you are lined up straight in the length of the room.[/QUOTE]
On your pencil line nail a nail into the floor leaving it sticking up an 1 inch or so. The vinyl will slide along the nails sideways and it will hold it in place a lot better than a pencil marks. DO NOT nail the vinyl. It works really well on coved commercial vinyl even on a concrete floor as the weld rod covers the nail hole.

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Old September 9, 2006, 10:49 AM   #7
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


Here's what fender washers were made for.
Find a large one like this and inspect it for a smooth clean center hole.... some are punched a little ragged....... not a good thing for a cheap ballpoint pen's longevity. Years ago, Armstrong used to make DIY patterning kits with a fat plastic 'washer' thingy.
The third photo just shows setting the dividers for the correct width to mark the material after the pattern is taped down.
This old tub curved inward at the bottom, making dividers useless for the initial scribing. I do a lot of patterning, most guys seem to do fine cutting it in in place. As you can see in the last picture, patterning helps make the layout positioning easier. I generally like a full tile at the doorway and at the tub.......... not possible on this one. Centering a pattern on the toilet flange is something I 'aim' for as long as it works out everywhere else too.
Anyway, the washer trick works out pretty well in cases like this.............. but then so would a 1/2 inch bead of silicone.
Attached Thumbnails (click to enlarge)
img_0012fender-washer.jpg   img_0013washerinaction.jpg  

img_0017setting-dividers.jpg   img_0019finished-vinyl.jpg  

img_0018centeredthepattern.jpg  
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Old September 9, 2006, 12:59 PM   #8
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


What an excellent tip, Randy. I had forgotten about those washers of long ago. This just makes the job a lot easier. The pictures are a big help too. I bet this would be a good tip for the DIYers too.

Thanks,

Jim

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Old September 9, 2006, 01:11 PM   #9
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


Jim, I used this method to fit some laminate trim molding against an uneven brick fire place hearth once also. The trim was fit around 3 sides. In that case, I used a slightly smaller washer. I set the molding parallel to the fire place and taped it down so it couldn't move.... then I put blue tape on top of the molding so the pen mark would be more visible. I fit all three sides, then cut the 45 degree mitres........... slow, but looked great.
I made the cut with a jig saw.

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Old September 9, 2006, 04:17 PM   #10
Nick Arrera
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


excellent tip, Randy. I to like floorman hate a dirty trial , i keep my trial in a tupple ware container the warden has been looking for , for about 2 years he he ..
I full it just enough to cover the trial keeping the handle dry .. also WD 40 is fast and easy for cleaning glue ..

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Old September 10, 2006, 02:43 AM   #11
Jerry Thomas
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


Neato. I had forgotten about that washer trick also. How can I forget so much stuff? I might be stealing that one too. The scriberdownnow, I sorta like that. I am mailing a washer to myself first thing Monday

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Old September 10, 2006, 11:31 AM   #12
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


Jerry said
Neato. I had forgotten about that washer trick also. How can I forget so much stuff? I might be stealing that one too. The scriberdownnow, I sorta like that. I am mailing a washer to myself first thing Monday
I'm not worried................. you will forget to mail it Monday anyway............... and when you do mail it on Tuesday, you will write down the wrong area code and send it to some guy in Botswanna....... No big deal, because you will forget you sent it anyway.
... anyway, this guy from Botswanna will in turn, put the washers on broken sticks and twigs and sell them as toy cars. Those will become all the rage at Christmas time for a few years and every kid on the planet will own one. A comedy movie about his life will be made starring Eddie Murphy. He will then retire fat and rich in a luxury high rise apartment with a view in downtown Manhatten. Maybe he will need some carpet installed?

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Old September 11, 2006, 01:49 AM   #13
Jerry Thomas
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


As soon as I can scrape up enough money for postage that baby is in the mail sir. O wait......... I don't have a fender washer...........why don't you just mail that one to me and we will split the profits ..... 90/10

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Old October 8, 2006, 06:47 PM   #14
Don Monfils
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


When installing underlayment around a pipe I used to cut a U shape just a little bigger than the pipe. It was very difficult to get the underlayment gun behind the pipe.This works much better.
Attached Thumbnails (click to enlarge)
rs-pipe1.jpg   rspipe2.jpg  

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Old October 9, 2006, 05:33 PM   #15
Jim Dandy
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Re: "TRICKS OF THE TRADE "


Great tip guys!

I love the washer thing, must have missed out on the Armstrong DIY kits. Love it! Goin' to the garage to put one in my tool box!

I can't think of much to add other than to help eliminate a glue line on "dry to touch adhesive" installs, simply don't roll the material right at the glue line stay back 6-8". You can roll the area where you started or stopped gluing after you've glued the other half. works for me.

To help eliminate the glue line on epoxy installs don't pull the material out of the glue after the first spread (using the tape trick of course to get a nice line). Then carefully work glue under the roll when doing the second spread.

Of course I have a lot of crazy tips but they are more the "try at your own risk"
Here's a couple so your not left hangin'
To save time on flash coving you can install 6" contact tape (after installing the cove stick) along the wall and some will go to floor of course. That way you have glue already in place for vinyl cap, and the material you are coving.
Some people put their v-plug (Butterfly) corners on first, but you can also put them on last, sometimes you can save on man power that way.

Lookin forward to more great tips!

JD

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