commercial carpet install

[stullis]

kylenelson said Even trace cutting is pushing the line IMO. At least one side is cut properly in that case.

And when you go to trace cut it you screw up/ fray that edge.

[kylenelson]

stullis said And when you go to trace cut it you screw up/ fray that edge.

That's only with the REALLY cheap stuff. Or if you're a wild man and exert all your force to the side instead of downwards. Haha.

[BrianM]

stullis said Patch way over-watered in the video. Amateur tools and trowels used and poor methods over all from layout to actual implementation. But they got the check. Mixing the patch according to the manufacturers recomendations... I really wonder how many of you have actually tried that? Good luck most of the time. Never double cut carpet? LMAO you don't do much commercial work either. Ever hear of a glass cutter? How about a serpentine edge? Double cutting is as good of a method as trace cutting and I would argue actually better. Now with that said, is it the preferred method? Sometimes, think C&A, but not usually.

*
Those are pretty much my exact thoughts.

[DJ]

what about the double cutting free hand not a top cutter i've only trace cut then...i used a top cutter/cushion back cutter

[BrianM]

DJ said what about the double cutting free hand not a top cutter i've only trace cut then...i used a top cutter/cushion back cutter

**
We're talking about fuzzy wallpaper that they're pasting on the floor.

[Roland Thompson]

This is realy funny to me. Here we set looking at this video and try and look at what we can roast this installer for. I would bet that he is doing it just like he was taught years ago and he is very proud of his work ( or he would not have posted it on utube ) I look at it that he did seam seal, I have seen so many that do not, and it did look like he did not like the idea of where the cross seam fell. My main concern is how do we go about getting installers like him to see the value of training.
I have done many of commercial work with carpets like that and some of it you just can not row on row it. My way would have been row and trace but even that cuts some loops, so I will not throw stones at some one that double cuts.

Roland

[stullis]

Roland Thompson said My main concern is how do we go about getting installers like him to see the value of training. Roland

Pay them for getting trained.

[rgfloor]

stullis said Pay them for getting trained.

Send me a check Scott, I'll PM the address!!






And who pays? Scott doesn't want too, retailers don't feel it is their responsibility, mills pay for the trainimg by sending their teams out to do them. Nope, won't happen!!

[Peter Kodner]

Roland, I don't think I have ever taken exception to anything you have posted before but I do now. I don't see this as roasting this installer but pointing out the misinformation that gets passed off as accurate.

Ignorance may be bliss but that is not an excuse (think Bush and Iraq)! Knowing better and still doing it is far worse (think Cheney and Rove vis-à-vis
Iraq). NOTE: I am not being political here, just pointing out some distinctions that are easy to relate to.

While I certainly would like to see more qualified installers (both in numbers and those continuing to upgrade their skills), and the pursuit of accomplishing this is admirable, it is an individual responsibility to become the best at what you do. Unfortunately, those who settle for minimum skill sets (if they are even willing to achieve this) are, IMHO, the vast majority. They can get a pay check and simply don't care if they excel or not.

Stullis: you repeatedly opine that having someone else foot the bill for installer training is the panacea for the poor work we see. The truth is most flooring companies do not pay for this. Good, bad or indifferent, that is the reality. Life frequently is not fair, so get over it. I do not make rationalizations for why this is, as my company always did pay for this and we found great benefits for doing so (and I do not say this to brag or imply we were better than others; it simply was a good business practice for our company.).

The other reality to providing educational programs is human nature dictates we do not appreciate that which we do not have to invest in, i.e. what is given to us for free we do not care for as much as that in which we have put our own time and/or money into. I can tell you from first hand experience of attending numerous classes and seminars that it is easy to tell which attendees paid their own freight and which ones had the way paid for them (yes there are exceptions to both these generalizations). I regularly observe the ones paying their own ways being attentive, taking notes, asking questions and being the first ones to grab the tools on the hands on demonstrations. The other type seem to be the first ones talking to each other, nodding off and going for a smoke break whenever they can get away with it, more like a mini vacation than a benefit for their own careers.

I can comfortably say this from my own personal record on this subject. I have been incredibly lucky to attend some of the best educational offerings in the industry over the years. During my younger days, when either the company or the host paid all the bills, it was easy to be more involved in the social aspects than the learning at hand. Now that I personally foot the entire bills, you better believe I am far more attentive to the subject matter. I no longer presume my just showing up increases my knowledge, capabilities and skills (the few that I do possess ).

I am yielding the soap box now...

[Barry Carlton]

I think I have a good example of what Peter is talking about.
The other installer at one of the stores I work through only has about 5-6 years experience. About 3 years ago the store wanted him to go to the Forbo classes. They would pay transportation and the course cost. He refused at least 3 times that I am aware of.

[rgfloor]

I will second Peters thoughts. Oh, and those paying there own way usually sit right up front so they can easily hear and see. What!!! What!! Peter was in the front row? Is he blind and deaf?

[Peter Kodner]

rgfloor said I will second Peters thoughts. Oh, and those paying there own way usually sit right up front so they can easily hear and see. What!!! What!! Peter was in the front row? Is he blind and deaf?

I always go for the front row. No, not deaf, just "dumb"

[Roland Thompson]

Peter go head and make me make feel bad, this is how I was looking at it. I have ran into so many installers thru trainings, that wanted to do their very best but was only trained in one method and have never seen any other way. In their heart they were doing their best and giving the customer the very best. So unless I knew the facts about this installer I wanted to give him the benifit of me not coming down on him to hard.

Roland Have a cup of coffee on me.

[DJ]

Peter Kodner said Roland, I don't think I have ever taken exception to anything you have posted before but I do now. I don't see this as roasting this installer but pointing out the misinformation that gets passed off as accurate. Ignorance may be bliss but that is not an excuse (think Bush and Iraq)! Knowing better and still doing it is far worse (think Cheney and Rove vis-à-vis Iraq). NOTE: I am not being political here, just pointing out some distinctions that are easy to relate to. While I certainly would like to see more qualified installers (both in numbers and those continuing to upgrade their skills), and the pursuit of accomplishing this is admirable, it is an individual responsibility to become the best at what you do. Unfortunately, those who settle for minimum skill sets (if they are even willing to achieve this) are, IMHO, the vast majority. They can get a pay check and simply don't care if they excel or not. Stullis: you repeatedly opine that having someone else foot the bill for installer training is the panacea for the poor work we see. The truth is most flooring companies do not pay for this. Good, bad or indifferent, that is the reality. Life frequently is not fair, so get over it. I do not make rationalizations for why this is, as my company always did pay for this and we found great benefits for doing so (and I do not say this to brag or imply we were better than others; it simply was a good business practice for our company.). The other reality to providing educational programs is human nature dictates we do not appreciate that which we do not have to invest in, i.e. what is given to us for free we do not care for as much as that in which we have put our own time and/or money into. I can tell you from first hand experience of attending numerous classes and seminars that it is easy to tell which attendees paid their own freight and which ones had the way paid for them (yes there are exceptions to both these generalizations). I regularly observe the ones paying their own ways being attentive, taking notes, asking questions and being the first ones to grab the tools on the hands on demonstrations. The other type seem to be the first ones talking to each other, nodding off and going for a smoke break whenever they can get away with it, more like a mini vacation than a benefit for their own careers. I can comfortably say this from my own personal record on this subject. I have been incredibly lucky to attend some of the best educational offerings in the industry over the years. During my younger days, when either the company or the host paid all the bills, it was easy to be more involved in the social aspects than the learning at hand. Now that I personally foot the entire bills, you better believe I am far more attentive to the subject matter. I no longer presume my just showing up increases my knowledge, capabilities and skills (the few that I do possess ). I am yielding the soap box now...

true, yet, i know a few (I do mean a few like 3) very well trained installers that have gotten to the point they just don't care sometimes they have been doin it around 5 years they have lost the love fur it...... i think so it's becoming a punch in do job routine

[TFP Admin]

Roland Thompson said Peter go head and make me make feel bad, this is how I was looking at it. I have ran into so many installers thru trainings, that wanted to do their very best but was only trained in one method and have never seen any other way. In their heart they were doing their best and giving the customer the very best. So unless I knew the facts about this installer I wanted to give him the benifit of me not coming down on him to hard. Roland Have a cup of coffee on me.

Thank you, Roland, for your diplomatic approach. A bad installer doesn't always know they are doing something wrong. Calling them names and ridiculing them is not a good teaching method.

R'gards,

Jim