Age of Installers

[rusty baker]

Did anyone notice most of the people in the conference pictures are in their 50's or 60's. In my area almost all of the installers are 50 plus. Is this common everywhere? What can we do to get younger people interested in our trade? I have worked by myself for years, but back when I had a helper, I had trouble finding a young man that wanted to work. I paid 2 0r 3 times what other jobs were paying. I have a friend who owns a HVAC business who has the same problem. My daughter has a good paying factory job, but the factory has to hire some illegals because they can't find young American men willing to work. They run constant ads, but most of the young men they hire only work a few days. The young guys I hired, didn't want to get dirty.

[Lo Down]

Originally Posted by rusty baker Did anyone notice most of the people in the conference pictures are in their 50's or 60's. In my area almost all of the installers are 50 plus. Is this common everywhere? What can we do to get younger people interested in our trade? I have worked by myself for years, but back when I had a helper, I had trouble finding a young man that wanted to work. I paid 2 0r 3 times what other jobs were paying. I have a friend who owns a HVAC business who has the same problem. My daughter has a good paying factory job, but the factory has to hire some illegals because they can't find young American men willing to work. They run constant ads, but most of the young men they hire only work a few days. The young guys I hired, didn't want to get dirty.

They don't seem to have trouble finding young kids to be electricians and plumbers........... you know the "real" trades. Too many hacks out there teaching sloppy practices, paying to little, working the kids to death ................. because that's what it takes working out of shops with their 1980's pricing.

[rusty baker]

I know our trade gets less respect than others. But line up at a retailer to load and look at the guys in line. Dirty clothes, rust-bucket vehicles, gaudy tatoos and bad attitudes.

[Nick Arrera]

I use to pay green helpers $150.00 a day .. they were 30 yrs old and still living at home .. Could not depend on them showing up for work .. A lot of them said the work was to tough for the money ..
and yes the guys are scruffy looking , and just don't give a damn about learning ..

[Chris Mha]

I believe that Tony was the baby of the group and I think I would be next at 47 and believe me it came up. I think it was Roger that thought I was the baby of the group on day 1.

[Jackreed]

I had a disscusion with one retailer I rarely lay for about my prices. He thought I was to high. I told him too wait ten to fifteen years. The installers would probably install for the price of the material plus extras. Because of fewer layers in the area and they will have to come from a greater distance. Also the workmanship will not be that good. Just what I think.

[rusty baker]

I don't think overall workmanship is as good now as it was 20 years ago.

[Demonseed]

I am 38, I got into the trade because my dad was in it and I was the son. What I see alot, is people hire guys as helpers, start to teach them the basics, and after 6 months the helper has a few tools, can do small easy jobs and decides to do his own work. Finding reliable people that are willing to learn and put in the time is not easy.

I also know guys that do find reliable people, then for the above reasons, do not want to teach them too much. Their reasoning is, I got a reliable helper, if I teach them how to be a good mechanic, show them all of the tricks of the trade, in 2 years (or so) they will go off on their own, or they will have to pay them alot more.

The long and short of it is anyone can say they are a carpet/flooring installer, whereas a plumber or electrician needs to be licensed by the State. Younger people that want to go into a trade, have heard the dream, plumbers and electricians live in Fancy houses, drive expensive cars, and they do easy work, get alot of breaks and live the good life. Carpet Installers are always late, drive beat up Vans, have no benefits, and have their knees fall off.

Try to do a search online, about what the average Carpet/floor Installer makes, and compare it to an electrician or plumber. I know a guy who is in his late 30's, being forced to make a career change over the next year or so, and was talking about joining the union as an electricians apprentice for $13 an hour for the next 3 years to get his certification/license. As the conversation progressed, prevailing wage came up, and I told him for Carpet Installers in NJ it is over $48 an hour, that put a pause in his thought train. The weird thing is, for as long as I have been in this trade, I could not even tell someone how to join the Union.

[rusty baker]

When I lived in KC, I only knew of one small store that was union and yet I have been told, most of St.Louis is union.

[Darol Wester]

My brother and I are the oldest installers in the county in our middle to late 50's. The rest are in their 20's and 30's. A good age for the physical demand of this trade. When we started in our early twenties, all the rest here were in their 50's and 60's. I do see the next generation coming down the pipe.

As far as respect......... I do believe we are at least above the roofers.

[Tandy Reeves]

Rusty you bring up a very good point and this is an area that needs to be explored and the industry come up with something to bring the younger generation into the industry>

Jon sent me material in this area and we did not have time to get to it at the workshop. Perhaps this would be something we can explore and kick start next year.

[tony lamar]

Originally Posted by Chris Mha I believe that Tony was the baby of the group and I think I would be next at 47 and believe me it came up. I think it was Roger that thought I was the baby of the group on day 1.

Actually, I'm 45. I believe Danny was the baby at 38 (I think). Everyone else at the workshop was ancient compared to us whipper snappers though.

[Daris Mulkin]

as a CFI Senior Certifier I get to see the cream of the crop of some of the younger guys coming up. Let me tell there are some real fine installers on the rise. The major problem is it is extremely hard work and body breaking with no benefits unless you are in a union area that hire hourly. But as in my area the retailors got together in the late 60's and told all the installers if you want work go contracting. Today it is still the subcontracting with all bennies lost. Even the union people are taking cuts of what was achieved years ago just ot stay viable. And it is going to keep happening. The installer maybe in business but he is not in control of his business, the retailor controls it by telling him this is what yolu will get and that is that on most part. Am I getting down on the retailor, yes I am, but let me tell you there are also some very fine retailors out there and I was lucky enough to have the privilege of working for them in my area. I also sorted out the bad ones.
Now for the most part most installers aren't business people and don't have a clue how to run a business.
It don't give much incentive for a young person to get into the flooring trade does it?

Daris

[Taurus Flooring]

The more I think about it, the more it seems, that it would be better to not install for retailers at all anymore. If they want my service, they will have to have the customer contact me and I will discuss my prices and why they should use me. It dawns on me, that the stores I work for, don't support my business, but only use it. The only way the kids are going to get interested in working in this trade, is when they see that they can make a living from it. That includes benefits, and pensions. It's time the trade stops being treated like part time handyman. Seems to me, they need us, more then us needing them.

[rusty baker]

I don't work at all for retailers anymore. Sometimes it means things are slow, but I only do jobs That I bid.