Church Basement Floor

[Pastor]

Greetings to everyone,
Our Church building has a lower level that is used for Children's Church as well as social activities, i.e. New Years Eve parties. It has high traffic as a result. The dimensions are 58 feet x 34 feet, irregular. Our maintenance person has twice put wood support under regular ceramic tiles, at considerable cost, but both times the ceramic tiles have been punctured by high heeled shoes, as well as weakened by water seepage into the wood supports. We spent several thousand dollars fixing the seepage problem, and it is no longer an issue, but our floor is still filled with cracked tiles that need replacing desperately.
I have been considering rubber flooring since children run around on the floor constantly, and perhaps this would be more resistant to the high heels, but would this be the most appropriate solution? If not, which would be?
I'm a Pastor, and have no experience in any of this.
Thank you in advance for your help!

[Daris Mulkin]

Pastor~welcome to the board. Being a carpet guy is carpet out of the question?

Daris

[Kman]

Daris, I would be there's some eating and drinking going on in this room, (especially if they're Baptists ) so I bet carpet would be stained pretty quickly.

Pastor, one thing that I don't understand about your post, you said high-heeled shoes were puncturing the ceramic tile? I'm not sure I know what you mean, since a properly installed ceramic tile couldn't be punctured that way.

Is the floor salvageable or is it a total loss? Can you post some pictures of it, particularly the problem areas?

[stullis]

Could a hired a professional, spent the money once and enjoyed the floor instead of getting by on the cheap. Did the DIY volunteers put it in the first time?

Most likely he is confusing VCT with ceramic tile.
The first question I would ask is why are you putting wood support down?

[Floorguy]

Pastor said Greetings to everyone, Our Church building has a lower level that is used for Children's Church as well as social activities, i.e. New Years Eve parties. It has high traffic as a result. The dimensions are 58 feet x 34 feet, irregular. Our maintenance person has twice put wood support under regular ceramic tiles, at considerable cost, but both times the ceramic tiles have been punctured by high heeled shoes, as well as weakened by water seepage into the wood supports. We spent several thousand dollars fixing the seepage problem, and it is no longer an issue, but our floor is still filled with cracked tiles that need replacing desperately. I have been considering rubber flooring since children run around on the floor constantly, and perhaps this would be more resistant to the high heels, but would this be the most appropriate solution? If not, which would be? I'm a Pastor, and have no experience in any of this. Thank you in advance for your help!

Rubber is not good where food is involved.
Did the high heels destroy the grout? As I cannot see them damaging the actual tiles, unless you have Vinyl Composite Tiles(VCT) and not fired clay ceramic tiles and mortar, with grout joints.



This is where I get confused...
Basement, with wood supports under tiles.

Can you describe this a little better, please. Is this "basement" below ground level(below grade)??? Or is there a crawl space under the "basement"

[Pastor]

Thank you all for replying so quickly!
The tiles we placed have puncture holes that were caused by heels. They also have cracked, and the little pieces left over are a hazard to our children, who may mistake them for candy since the tiles are green.
The floor is not a total loss yet but it's getting there rapidly.
There is a wooden support under the tiles; sorry if I'm not using the right terminology, but as best as I can describe it there are flat wooden planks on top of the concrete floor, and on those planks the tiles were installed. Water has damaged the wood previously, and although we now have a new sump pump some of the wood is unsalvageable.
I don't think that carpet will help us, given the amount of traffic and the number and nature of activities that occur there - running children, and yes, food - we're not baptists, but boy can we eat! . Seriously though, we run a soup kitchen for the needy of our community, so carpet would probably not be the best choice.
I'll get some pictures together by tomorrow to show you all what I mean. Thanks again for your help, and may God richly bless you all!

[Floorguy]

Now we are getting somewhere!

Remove the wood subfloor, that should have never been installed and is going to be the root of many floor failures, until it is out of there.

Sandwiching wood between flooring that has a high perm rating, is never good.

[Pastor]

Thanks! That is definitely a must. What comes next is what I don't exactly know. What kind of flooring would be best? If tiles, would they go directly onto the concrete floor? I've been reading about DITRA or some other foundational materials - are they necessary or helpful?

[Nick Arrera]

checking the concrete for moisture would be the first thing to do
Then check it for flatness .
Depends on what shape the floor is in as to what the next step would be .

[BrianM]

Pastor said Thanks! That is definitely a must. What comes next is what I don't exactly know. What kind of flooring would be best? If tiles, would they go directly onto the concrete floor? I've been reading about DITRA or some other foundational materials - are they necessary or helpful?

********************
Hi Pastor and welcome to our board. I agree with Floorguy. There's no getting around a TOTAL demolition of the flooring and wood subfloor. Wood subfloor is a horrible mistake for a damp basement. Everyone here may hate this suggestion but have you seen the latest trend in those mall stores. They're getting away from carpet, wood, tile and vinyl products and having some very fancy concrete finishes put in. Sometimes it's a stain into the cement topping and sometimes it's just a paint job. Either way when done correctly and sealed properly it's attractive, trendy and very SANITARY.

In the olden days we would put ASPHALT ASBESTOS tiles down into a tar-based cutback adhesive with a kerosene thinner. That was something that would last in a basement. Ceramic tiles would work layed direct to the slab. Don't even consider wood, carpet or vinyl. It's WAY too expensive to prep the floor against the inevitable moisture.

[Tandy Reeves]

If the floor is below grade do not do anything before having a person with no vested interest in the floor do the Calcium Chloride tests as Nick suggested. I have looked at a number of the stained, polished, and painted concrete floors and they will fail as quick as a wood floor.

You must know what you have to work with before you decide what flooring material or procedure you are going to use. You have a little over 1900 square feet of floor space which will require four (4) tests be put down. You will have to work with the highest reading you get.

[Kman]

How was the wood attached to the floor? The concrete may have been damaged too bad, or will get damaged with the wood being torn out, to allow for a decent finish.

The cheapest route would be VCT, but this is only if the moisture tests come back okay. Otherwise, ceramic would be the best choice. For roughly $1.50 a square foot (materials only) you could install Ditra on the conrete then the tile. Ditra would give you good anti-fracture and moisture control properties.

[cproader]

Welcome to the fray Pastor.......I am a pastor's kid............a Baptist pastor's kid...........

[Kman]

cproader said I am a pastor's kid............a Baptist pastor's kid...........

You know, that explains so much now.

[cproader]

Kman said You know, that explains so much now.

..............