Stymied for months over basement w/wetness issues

Teellbee · July 5, 2009, 12:56 PM

Background: condo with finished basement and sump pump. Basement includes a bedroom, bath, laundry room, and sitting room, with 2 window wells. In the 4 years we lived here, 2 water incursions occurred at one exterior wall - both due to "exceptional circumstances". First time: electricity went out for 8 hours during an extremely severe rainstorm, so the sump pump was off. Second time: people renting the unit next door dumped a dough-boy pool full of water, not using the drain. Now my neighbor's unit has wetness due to a malfunctioning water sprinkler. We live in a climate that is dry much of the year, but has heavy rains at times in winter - we get frost, but no snow.

Also, I have 4 old cats with all the "usual" problems: vomit, peeing outside the box when upset, etc.

So, I am looking to replace the carpeting with new flooring. I've ruled out carpet and real wood, natch. I've been shopping and reading for months to figure out what product would withstand these rare water incursions and be tough, easy to clean etc. Although I'd prefer to use the same product on the stairs, I'd consider using two different products if that's the best solution.

But I am SO CONFUSED about what product(s) will work for me after talking to numerous flooring retailers and reading reviews online.

So, I keep cycling between tile, laminate, and vinyl sheet. Every time I pick a product then search for reviews online, I get scared away.

Some questions (finally):

What products/brands would work with these challenges?

Should I have a waterproof membrane applied to the exterior walls (concrete block) and floors (concrete)? That would require removing drywall and studs - or is that overkill?

If not an overkill, what waterproofing membranes would be effective?

Sorry this is so long, but I tried to anticipate your questions in advance.

Tandy Reeves · July 5, 2009, 01:08 PM

I would suggest ceramic tile. Under no circumstance would I use la m ina te (notice how it is coming apart just talking about it

) I would also keep the grout space narrow and use a non-porous grout.

I am just an inspector and we have many true professionals that will be able to give you better advise.

Curt Durand · July 5, 2009, 01:25 PM

Agree with Tandy. La mi na te is out. The tile you mentioned, what exactly were you looking at - ceramic, vinyl, cork, etc.? Ceramic tiles would work best and you could use area rugs to soften up the flooring. Easy to clean and replace. Have retired greyhounds, successful racers, which only live for 5 to 7 years after you adopt them. Messy in the last few years. Have had one Congoleum sheet vinyl in our basement family room for over 30 years and gone through a couple of small wall leakages/slight subfloor dampness times. Flooring looks the same. Flooring still looks very good. Bigger floods would probably damage the vinyl adhesive and/or cause mold growth under it. VCT tiles would probably be about the same. Solid vinyl tiles would most likely pop up off of the subfloor if there were underlying moisture issues.

Teellbee · July 5, 2009, 02:19 PM

Thank you both for your comments, especially about laminates.

Tiles I've considered include ceramic and Duraceramic and Interceramic.

At one ceramic tile place, they told me that a water incursion could damage the adhesive (mastic?). Which sounded weird, as I thought ceramic tile was always set with cement and grout, which would dry out.

My worry about ceramic: I think it's difficult repair or replace a damaged tile. I'm not crazy about maintaining grout although the newer style of very thin grout lines probably isn't so difficult.

Are synthetic tiles like Duraceramic or Interceramic a suitable option? Or do they have the same issues as ceramic?

~~~Teellbee

If it can stand up to the possibility of water incursions and is tough enough, vinyl sheet has some appeal to me for it's greater comfort and the fact that some the faux tile/wood patterns look pretty good.

mcbrides · July 5, 2009, 03:35 PM

Teellbee said

Thank you both for your comments, especially about laminates.

Tiles I've considered include ceramic and Duraceramic and Interceramic.

At one ceramic tile place, they told me that a water incursion could damage the adhesive (mastic?). Which sounded weird, as I thought ceramic tile was always set with cement and grout, which would dry out.

My worry about ceramic: I think it's difficult repair or replace a damaged tile. I'm not crazy about maintaining grout although the newer style of very thin grout lines probably isn't so difficult.

Are synthetic tiles like Duraceramic or Interceramic a suitable option? Or do they have the same issues as ceramic?

~~~Teellbee

If it can stand up to the possibility of water incursions and is tough enough, vinyl sheet has some appeal to me for it's greater comfort and the fact that some the faux tile/wood patterns look pretty good.

I would be inclined to believe that vinyl sheetgoods adhesive would be compromised in suddenly wet conditions, and then you would have subsequent discolouration from the moisture underneath the vinyl.

DuraCeramic is a personal favourite, provided that the cement floor is high and dry when it is installed, that adhesive wouldn't let go no matter what. The grout is pre-mixed acrylic based, non staining, and that would be a plus given your cats' penchant for getting back at you. It is also warmer underfoot, and is far less likely to crack from surface damage.

Deb

Bill Watson · July 6, 2009, 03:49 AM

Teellbee said

At one ceramic tile place, they told me that a water incursion could damage the adhesive (mastic?). Which sounded weird, as I thought ceramic tile was always set with cement and grout, which would dry out.

My worry about ceramic: I think it's difficult repair or replace a damaged tile. I'm not crazy about maintaining grout although the newer style of very thin grout lines probably isn't so difficult.
~~~Teellbee

Hi Teellbee

Ceramic tile should be a good choice for your application.

I would not suggest a mastic type adhesive for most tile installations, especially a floor install on concrete and below grade.
Thinset mortar would perform just fine under the conditions you describe.

Replacement of a damaged or broken tile is not really all that difficult, especially over a concrete substrate.

A combination of thin grout joints, and ensuring that you seal the joints after curing should make maintenance pretty easy.

Welcome to the best flooring site around.

Jerry Thomas · July 6, 2009, 04:27 AM

Ideally you need a porcelain tile set in thinset (never mastic) and use an epoxy or urethane type non-staining grout. Has you covered on all your concerns.

BrianM · July 6, 2009, 09:40 AM

Jerry Thomas said

Ideally you need a porcelain tile set in thinset (never mastic) and use an epoxy or urethane type non-staining grout. Has you covered on all your concerns.

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Jerry, can an average homeowner use epoxy or urethane grout or is that something best left to an experienced tile guy. I've never used them.

cproader · July 6, 2009, 01:14 PM

BrianM said

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Jerry, can an average homeowner use epoxy or urethane grout or is that something best left to an experienced tile guy. I've never used them.

........Urethane, yes.....epoxy, not a good idea.......I can't tell ya how many epoxy grout jobs by DIYers I have almost puked over......I seen some nice tile ruined that way.......

Jerry Thomas · July 6, 2009, 01:36 PM

I'm speaking about SpectraLOCK. If a homeowner is accomplished enough to do a real good job installing tile with sanded grout, he/she should be able to use SpectraLOCK. It's all about not getting lazy and being able to follow instructions and time limits.

cproader · July 6, 2009, 01:42 PM

Jerry Thomas said

he/she should be able to use SpectraLOCK.

........notice the word "should".........BIG word........

BrianM · July 6, 2009, 02:07 PM

cproader said

........Urethane, yes.....epoxy, not a good idea.......I can't tell ya how many epoxy grout jobs by DIYers I have almost puked over......I seen some nice tile ruined that way.......

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When there's any epoxy involved in a resilient job we only give that work to the better guys who can READ and follow basic instructions. We sent a guy out to do a small rubber tile job and when he came into the shop to pick up the material there was a can of part A mix in the box with no part B.

I think you can guess the rest of the story.

Teellbee · July 6, 2009, 10:00 PM

Wow! Thank you! I am very impressed with the input here - very great stuff!

So, now I realize I should drop la min ate and vinyl sheet from the shortlist.

This won't be DIY; I'll have professionals install the product - whether porcelain, ceramic, or duraceramic. But your comments about expertise of the installers makes me realize I probably should not just trust whomever the retailer may send out.

Is there anyway I could assure that the installers know what they are doing? Especially with the epoxy or urethane grouting? It sounds like I'd need someone with specific expertise.

Also, still wondering...

Should I have a waterproof membrane applied to the exterior walls (concrete block) and floors (concrete)? That would require removing drywall and studs - or is that overkill?

Thanks for all the input - this is really helping more than you could know.

TFP Admin · July 6, 2009, 10:53 PM

It's funny you should ask about the available pros in and around your part of the world. I am in the beginning stages of creating one of the finest PRO Directories on the internet. In time, people like you will be able to come here to find pros in your area and read important information about them, maybe see some of their pictures or a portfolio and some of them will also have feedback from current and former clients. It's something I have wanted to do for a while now and I think we will finally get it off the ground: PRO Directory of Flooring Products and Services Virtually nothing except a single entry from my alter ego, but it will receive more in the coming days and then everyone is gonna want a listing.

By the way, did I say

stullis · July 7, 2009, 12:05 AM

Interceramic is a ceramic and porcelain tile brand.

Do NOT use Duraceramic and their grout in this situation either.

Porcelain tile and epoxy gout would be best. And the thinset should have 100% coverage as well. As far as picking a pro, you could ask them what they might recommend for your situation. If they don't mention epoxy type grout... keep looking.

I think the waterproof membrane membrane would be a waste of time and money. Exterior (outside the structure)water mitigation would be a better use of your money. There are companies that specialize in Dry Basements as well.