Waste Factor

[FlooringGirl]

Just sitting here figuring a job I measured this afternoon, and was curious what rules of thumb you use to determine waste factors on hard surfaces. I use a % for each type/pattern, but still am sometimes either tight or have a lot left.

Tia

[Peter Kodner]

I used to use an Armstong chart that changed based on footage. It was real old (maybe from the 40s) and for the life of me I don't know if I still have a copy. It had always worked well for me...

Ah Ha!!!

Looked in my tech files and found this in the circle A engineered installation systems under estimating:
Approximate Percentage of Allowable Tile Waste for Various Areas
Up to 50 sq. ft. 14%
50 – 100 sq. ft. 10%
100 – 200 sq. ft. 8%
200 – 300 sq. ft. 7%
300 – 1,000 sq. ft. 5%
1,000 – 5,000 sq. ft. 3%
5,000 – 10,000 sq. ft. 2–3%
10,000 and up 1–2%

If memory serves right, this hasn't changed from what I used to use.

Remember diagonal layouts will increase waste factors!

[DJ]

i was taught 10-15% in pergo endorsement class. depends on application I.E. angles are a killer on waste as is radius's i do not do much vinyl,vct is easy no ceramic tile either,i have a tile setter/guy for that

[BrianM]

FlooringGirl said Just sitting here figuring a job I measured this afternoon, and was curious what rules of thumb you use to determine waste factors on hard surfaces. I use a % for each type/pattern, but still am sometimes either tight or have a lot left. Tia

**********************
"tight"

I love it.

Peter's numbers are good------for 9" asphalt asbestos!

Seriously, those still work for 12" VCT but you can't use those numbers for much larger luxury vinyls or 3' radial rubber tiles. It's better to do an actual count of the tile you're going to need just as you'd figure pattern goods up the the full length + a half pattern per cut.

On sheet goods I do a complete layout and cut sheet. I'm not interested in a square yardage or square footage number to be used with a % waste. I make a cut sheet and roll allocation including the balance that will be needed for all the fills and closets. I add 2" to every cut and 1-2 foot for that balance cut used for the fills.

[FlooringGirl]

I ran off the chart to try ... never really thought about changing the percentage according to the footage. Today I'm working with plank wood laminate in a rectangular room, for this my usual is 7%; plank tile laminate with multi-sized tiles in a kitchen with cupboards and an island to go around, for this my usual is 12%; 4x4 tile on backsplashes, straight with corners clipped and diamond inserts, for this my normal would be 10%. Sometimes it works, other times not so well.

Tia

[Peter Kodner]

BrianM said ********************** "tight" I love it. Peter's numbers are good------for 9" asphalt asbestos! Seriously, those still work for 12" VCT but you can't use those numbers for much larger luxury vinyls or 3' radial rubber tiles. It's better to do an actual count of the tile you're going to need just as you'd figure pattern goods up the the full length + a half pattern per cut. On sheet goods I do a complete layout and cut sheet. I'm not interested in a square yardage or square footage number to be used with a % waste. I make a cut sheet and roll allocation including the balance that will be needed for all the fills and closets. I add 2" to every cut and 1-2 foot for that balance cut used for the fills.

Current Circle A guidelines!

Used them for carpet tile, but again on commercial, mostly larger projects.
With the little retail/residential work I ever did, I would go by what others are suggesting!

[BrianM]

Peter Kodner said Current Circle A guidelines! Used them for carpet tile, but again on commercial, mostly larger projects. With the little retail/residential work I ever did, I would go by what others are suggesting!

******************************
Oh, I thought you were citing the Armstrong reference from 1940!!


I'm not familiar with your estimating guidelines and my way is limited to smaller areas not large bids like you've done. They only ask me to estimate change orders, extras and occasionally as a double check against their own numbers or when they're already short on the job. In almost 100% of these cases we've got the work and its not a competitive bid situation but my best estimate. How "tight" I'm willing to be depends on how critical it is not to run short. Some of this stuff is impossible to get in the same dye lot or in a reasonable amount of time so you basically get one shot. There's no incentive for me to be tight at that point and my customers always appreciate an extra box or decent size balance for repairs. I'm not about to short them.

[mcbrides]

Your waste factor should be directly attributable to the number of bad cuts your installer routinely makes.

[rusty baker]

mcbrides said Your waste factor should be directly attributable to the number of bad cuts your installer routinely makes.

Now, that's funny.

[Robert Akin]

I once saw my dad one time get so frustrated with measuring a commercial job that he measured the outside of the building. He had no print and there was so much crap on the inside he gave up on it. We got the job and had plenty of material. That was just one of the many things he taught me!

That and counting ceiling tiles.


Rob

[rgfloor]

rusty baker said Now, that's funny.

But Oh so true!!


Peter is right on for commercial estimating.
Of course he took it from Chapter XII of CircleA 2007 Certified Installation Handbook! Well, that is where I got it.

[mcbrides]

Robert Akin said That and counting ceiling tiles. Rob

Did a job in Bala, Ontario, at least 45 minutes from anywhere, but in cottage country, three bedrooms, all at least a foot short; Dave asked the guy how he had measured the rooms (this customer claimed to have previously worked in the floorcovering industry), and he told us that he had 'counted the ceiling tiles'.

All the room-end fills were 1/4 turned from the selvedge offcuts. Customer was quite happy with that. It was just a cottage. We meet all kinds.

[Kman]

I figure waste based on the square footage of course, but I also figure less or more based on the layout of the room. If I figure there are a lot of unusual cuts to be made, or if there is a pattern, I add a little more. The one I measured last week was 610 sf of wood, but it's two rectangular rooms and a hallway. I don't figure I'll have much waste, so I ordered about 6% extra.

With tile, it's a little different. If I figure a bathroom that has a two closets off of it and the doors are at a 45 degree angle and the tub deck juts out into the room, I figure a little more waste, closer to 10 or 12%.

I can usually measure a room and get it pretty close to the exact square footage, then figure the waste pretty close. I rarely have more than a full box of tile or wood left over, and I can't remember the last time I ran short of material.

[FlooringGirl]

BrianM said ********************** "tight" I love it.

I was going to ignore that, as I know youda never said it if I was of the male gender. However, I also love "tight". Tight to the floor, tight stretch ... yeah.

Tia

[Peter Kodner]

I think he meant have a couple shots of Jack so you are tight before you figure the job