stretchers

[Jim McClain]

Demonseed said Since it is apparent, you did not bother to read everything I posted, I guess i will do you the same favor.

Thanks for the favor. I did read your whole post. Sorry you don't have the time to read mine.

But for the meat and potatoes, you are not power stretching a 9'x12' room.

There was a time, just like a lot of people here have said. But those times ended and I realized my body was worth more than a few minutes time savings. I power stretched anything I could fit the stretcher in, including the width of halls and a lot smaller rooms than 12x9.

I would power stretch everything if I was paid to do so, but I am not.

So, your boss said something like, "I'll pay you as long as you don't power stretch. Pull out the stretcher and you're off the clock." What was that you asked about who was BSing who? I installed for most of 35 years and never once had anyone, customer, GC or retailer, tell me to NOT use the stretcher. Maybe it happens, but I ain't never heard of it.

Or maybe it's just that you are deciding that the boss is cheating you out of a fair wage and you are going to retaliate by not using the stretcher - cut some corners to make the wage you agreed to when you took the job more palatable. I'm guessing here, please let me know what's up with that. Did the person actually say don't use the stretcher? Did you tell him/her that you wouldn't be using the stretcher for what they are paying you?

I wonder how many people here have actually run jobs. You seem to have no deadlines, no accountability. How many jobs do you all walk away from on average?

I'm retired form installations now, of course, but in the course of my 35 years of installations and sales, yes, I ran jobs. Maybe not as big as some members here, but I had 6 crews at one point in my career. I can count on one hand how many jobs I walked away from after accepting the job in the first place. If any of my employees installed without a stretcher, they got fired. I had to do some extra training, but never had to fire anyone.

Get your radars ready, I am mixing 60# bags of mortar with Plainipatch, to do heavy patching. I have a good ratio, then skim coat with ardex...I guess I broke another spec.

See, this is what bugs me. You add in some off the wall miscellaneous stuff to excuse the fact you don't stretch carpet properly when you should. Oh, you do if it's YOUR job, but the retailer who hired you to do his work can just suck it up - he gets what he gets.

I wonder sometimes what came first, the chicken or the egg - or in more topical terms, the retailer who short-changes the installer because they all cheat, or the installer who cheats because the retailer always short-changes them. Whose responsibility is it to stop that senseless cycle?

Jim

[cproader]

..........I kicked a bedroom in today cause I really wanted to get out of the nasty house in a hurry................. ...but I'll be goin to church on Sunday.......

Demo, if ya only knew how many times I have cut some corners, ya might not have such a high opinion of me........but what ya don't know..........

Oops, this don't make awhole lotta sense

[Jerry Thomas]

No carpet installer here, but I have a question. Do mills require in writing that all retailers who sell/install their carpet must power stretch? IE; don't call us about any problems if the product was not power stretched....

[Nick Arrera]

I get $10.00 yd because i sell my own jobs Demon . if i worked for a store i would never get that . Nor would i ever work for a store .

I had 26 apartment complexes at one time and never power stretched one of them . they were trashed within a week .

I power stretch large areas and crab small ones . I will admit power stretching is the proper way to install .

I guess when i start getting calls to restretch a job i will power everything .

To be quite honest , some of the junk out here today i think a power stretcher would shred it in half .

[Daris Mulkin]

People it all comes down to intgrety. If you take on a job, do you not take it on to install by mill standards? If you aren't doing to do this don't take on the job. Give the customer what they are paying for, not some subpar job. If you are doing subpar then you are ripping off the customer and yourself as well.
To my knowledge there is NOT one mill out there that don't recomend using a power stretcher for stretch in jobs.
Over the years I've done it all and cut some real serious corners but I got older and much wiser.

Daris

[rusty baker]

I think you will find that most of the installers on here run their own jobs. Most of us are independents. If I can't afford to PS a job, I don't take the job. Yes, I kicked many jobs when I was younger. Most of the carpet I see today cannot be kicked tight. Yes, I cut corners on the apts that I install. But the one thing I don't want to do is go back and restretch.

[stullis]

Daris Mulkin said Give the customer what they are paying for, not some subpar job. Daris

Sometimes that is what they are paying you for. ...

Jerry. They can not tell if a carpet has been power stretched or not, no matter what the inspectors want to say.

They sometimes can tell that it has been stretched if the carpet shows tiger tracks BUT the lack of tiger tracks does not mean that it hasn't been stretched.

[Peter Kodner]

stullis said Sometimes that is what they are paying you for. ... Jerry. They can not tell if a carpet has been power stretched or not, no matter what the inspectors want to say. They sometimes can tell that it has been stretched if the carpet shows tiger tracks BUT the lack of tiger tracks does not mean that it hasn't been stretched.

Scoot, you know I do more than just look for tiger tracks (quite frankly I do more than one examination for just about anything that might be installation related. It is not my job to blame an installer unless there is indisputably evidence.), but please do explain how carpet can been stretched and not have them (tiger tracks)?

[DJ]

yes i have it in writing to "power stretch their product" it comes with some carpet that has come straight from the mill (full rolls though) i order 300-350 yard orders of same style, color, rug. per house/tract houses/development'sthese homes, i cannot afford not to power stretch just a side note. i was just trying to tell kicker jockeys to maybe have interest in buying a stretcher on ebay. isn't this the tools for sale forum?

[stullis]

Not all carpets/backings show them the same Peter. Some the tiger tracks show easily others you won't see a thing.

[Peter Kodner]

What backings won't show a thing?

[Demonseed]

Here is the funny part of this, I do Power Stretch 90% of the time, this all started because I said I was not going to tell a customer power stretching is the only way to install carpet, of course everyone missed that little tidbit. I never stated in anyway that it is acceptable to not power stretch, but I have stated some jobs I knee kick, and I TAKE RESPONSIBILTY FOR THOSE JOBS. Apparently, no one got that other tidbit. I am not going to worry about the remote possibility that 10 years from now a claim on a flooring failure is going to come down to whether I stretched the carpet properly, if it does I will accept the decision.

My point is thus, it is easy to come on a website and tell everyone how you do everything by the book 100% of the time all the time, that is great more power to you, but that is not realistic for MOST installers. People have deadlines, project managers miss major details, salespeople make mistakes, GC's overlook things, the material comes in late, etc. If the customer has 2 million dollars in furniture arriving for their office building, they don't want to hear about what the book says, they want to hear it will cost more but we will get it done.

I wonder if someone could contact Roberts and ask them how many Power Stretchers they sell compared to Knee kickers, I bet it is one PS to 20 Knee kickers, if that. Everyone has their own way of doing things, people have tricks of the trades, others have learned what shortcuts they can use successfully but I can tell you one thing. We all have one thing in common, your short cut will always be okay to YOU, you will justify it a million times over, and no one can tell you otherwise, but when you see someone else's shortcut, I bet you are the first one to jump on them for not foing the job right. A very famous man said "Thee who is without sin or shortcuts cast the first stone"

Everyone has to evaluate the jobs they are on, and the expectations of the customer. If you show up blind to do 5K feet of VCT and you decide the floor needs a self levelling system, 2 skim coats and sanding, you going to get that money after the fact? Is that the right way everytime? Try to be realistic and relax about this stuff.

The point of this website is to exchange ideas and thoughts, ask for and give help, make life easier for each other. We all agree on what the book says, but we all agree we do not always follow it, i for one accept responsibilty for the jobs I do, by the Book or not.

One place I worked for we did peel and stick vinyl flooring, we followed the instructons to a T, and I was back 3 weeks later pulling out planks, because the product was spec'd wrong for the area. You go fix what they want fixed, keep your mouth shut and smile when you want to choke the SOB who refuses to put painters tape on the planks he wants replaced, that is life.

Jim McClain said Thanks for the favor. I did read your whole post. Sorry you don't have the time to read mine. There was a time, just like a lot of people here have said. But those times ended and I realized my body was worth more than a few minutes time savings. I power stretched anything I could fit the stretcher in, including the width of halls and a lot smaller rooms than 12x9. So, your boss said something like, "I'll pay you as long as you don't power stretch. Pull out the stretcher and you're off the clock." What was that you asked about who was BSing who? I installed for most of 35 years and never once had anyone, customer, GC or retailer, tell me to NOT use the stretcher. Maybe it happens, but I ain't never heard of it. Or maybe it's just that you are deciding that the boss is cheating you out of a fair wage and you are going to retaliate by not using the stretcher - cut some corners to make the wage you agreed to when you took the job more palatable. I'm guessing here, please let me know what's up with that. Did the person actually say don't use the stretcher? Did you tell him/her that you wouldn't be using the stretcher for what they are paying you? I'm retired form installations now, of course, but in the course of my 35 years of installations and sales, yes, I ran jobs. Maybe not as big as some members here, but I had 6 crews at one point in my career. I can count on one hand how many jobs I walked away from after accepting the job in the first place. If any of my employees installed without a stretcher, they got fired. I had to do some extra training, but never had to fire anyone. See, this is what bugs me. You add in some off the wall miscellaneous stuff to excuse the fact you don't stretch carpet properly when you should. Oh, you do if it's YOUR job, but the retailer who hired you to do his work can just suck it up - he gets what he gets. I wonder sometimes what came first, the chicken or the egg - or in more topical terms, the retailer who short-changes the installer because they all cheat, or the installer who cheats because the retailer always short-changes them. Whose responsibility is it to stop that senseless cycle? Jim

[Peter Kodner]

Give it a rest guys!

Can't we all be ?

[rusty baker]

Lets just agree to disagree.

[Al Gladden]

i am starting to think demonseed is [censored - rule #2].... i do powerstretch everything.. but ido not work for pennys either... I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ANYBODY WHO DOES NOT POWERSTRETCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!