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Circular Floorplan Brain Tease - Where to Continue?



"Circular Floorplan Brain Tease - Where to Continue?," in the Hardwood and Laminates Q&A forum, begins: "I am about to put engineered floor in the second half of the main floor of my modest 1929 character ..."

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Old December 6, 2012, 09:22 PM   #1
dkesslar
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Circular Floorplan Brain Tease - Where to Continue?


I am about to put engineered floor in the second half of the main floor of my modest 1929 character home. The new flooring is by the same manufacturer as the floor we installed over 4 years ago in the first 2 rooms on this floor. The layout is a circle basically.

floorplanrough.jpg

The shaded areas in the picture have flooring already. They run the direction of the double arrow. I THINK they end with tongue at the thresholds (A & B) but I am not 100% sure.**

My question is: Where should I start to install the rest of the floor? A, B or E?

The reason it is not obvious to me is this: If I start at one of the thresholds/doorways (A) and then get to the opening (C) and do the same from (B) and get to the opening (C), can I be guaranteed that the boards will line up perfectly?

I would prefer not to use a 'threshold' of sorts at (C) running perpendicular. to the boards

Here's the flooring product: Wood Floors, Hardwood Floors - Mannington Flooring

**I figure if that is not tongue at (A&B) then I can perhaps toenail into the open groove and then use a 'double-tongue' made from some material to hold the two facing grooves in line - perhaps some construction adhesive or face nailing - I guess I will figure that out - but it is at high traffic doorways so it has to be solid.
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Last edited by Jim McClain; December 7, 2012 at 04:43 AM.
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Old December 7, 2012, 04:50 AM   #2
Jim McClain
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The new flooring prob'ly won't be exactly the same size as the old stuff, so getting a perfect match at doorways A & B will be pretty much impossible. I'd do a loose-lay 2 or 3 rows wide all the way through both rooms and take a bunch of measurements to see where I could start and get the best look and fit where it's going to meet those 2 existing doorways.

Jim

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Old December 7, 2012, 06:02 AM   #3
Daris Mulkin
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Not being a wood guy my thoughts go to what door is used the most and is focal to the rest of the job. Thats where I would start.
But do a dry lay and snap lines to see how it comes out to the other doorway.

Daris

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Old December 7, 2012, 08:42 AM   #4
dkesslar
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The good news is, I've found the fit from old to new to be quite good. I dry fit the new with some cut offs of the old and they seemed good.

The nature of T&G means I will meet at (C) and have to start at BOTH (A) and (B). It's not like I can go (A) to (C) to (B)... right?

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Old December 7, 2012, 09:27 AM   #5
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You'd be asking for real trouble doing it that way. They will not meet up in the C doorway evenly, in most cases - you never tap them together the exact same amount every time and some boards are a scosh wider or narrower.

You can start your first few rows right down the longest part of the two rooms, as I said previously. Take measurements to find the best and squarest position so that the boards will end up at the A & B doorways full-width. One might be slightly further away. Make that small adjustment in where you start the rows so that when you get to each of those doorways, you have to trim off a very small slice to make the old and new butt together. Use a router to groove that board so it will fit the tongue of the old boards. You'll have to do a little creative sanding and staining on the cut edge to get the doorway boards to look natural when they fit together.

Jim

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Old December 7, 2012, 10:45 AM   #6
dkesslar
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Jim McClain said View Post
You can start your first few rows right down the longest part of the two rooms, as I said previously. ... Use a router to groove that board so it will fit the tongue of the old boards.

Jim
Thanks for replying Jim.

Forgive my lack of understanding but your answer confuses me slightly. When you say the "...longest part of the two rooms..." are you suggesting starting on the far outside wall (E) and working towards (A) and (B)? The nailer is putting staples on the tongue so I can only go one direction with the install as far as I know - ending up with a tongue at (A) and (B)....

Or when you say starting at the longest part of the room, are you suggesting only a dry fit and plenty of chalk lines etc?

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Old December 7, 2012, 11:06 AM   #7
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I am not sure exactly what Jim means either but here's what I would do...I would dry lay from one door way to the other and see where I came out. As Jim says, there is a possibility that they won't match up, however if the job was all done at once the same problem would have to been addressed at that time, right? It may well be close enough to install one area with a little more "oomph" as you nail and the other with a little more "finesse" to make any adjustments you need to. A dry fit will give you a close idea of what your next step should be and where.

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Old December 7, 2012, 12:16 PM   #8
dkesslar
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Well, no big deal but I revealed the edge at (B) and it is indeed a groove. I will make what I refer to as a 'double tongue' so I can join groove-to-groove and work towards (C) and then wall (E).
I'm almost done stripping the old up to (C) so I will work across to (A) and clear enough to do perhaps 2 rows across the full length and see how it all 'dry fits'.
The only reason I'm not stripping the whole thing at once is a.) We have a small house and no where to move all the furniture from BOTH rooms and b.) it is dang cold and snowy outside so I'm choosing to not move stuff onto the deck.

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Old December 7, 2012, 01:03 PM   #9
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Most manu's make splines for reversing directions as you are going to do.

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Old December 7, 2012, 01:40 PM   #10
dkesslar
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Thanks Barry. Maybe I thought pro's would never need such a thing. Anyway, a couple calls and I'm on my way to grab some. Yes, I could have made it in the shop but you ever have that problem where you have so many jobs on the go and such a small shop that it basically becomes more work to get ready to work in the shop than it is to driver 20 minutes and just buy something? Yeah, like that.

PS - yes, I'm taking a piece of floor with me.

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Old December 7, 2012, 02:00 PM   #11
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Crews use them all the time to install in 2 directions away from each other.

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Old December 7, 2012, 05:00 PM   #12
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dkesslar said View Post
When you say the "...longest part of the two rooms..." are you suggesting starting on the far outside wall (E) and working towards (A) and (B)? The nailer is putting staples on the tongue so I can only go one direction with the install as far as I know - ending up with a tongue at (A) and (B).
You want to go the same direction as the old hardwood, right? The longest part of the 2 rooms has to be straight through doorway C. You can't traverse 2 rooms any other way. This will give you the straightest starting point. Lay it dry, as I first said, take measurements so that you can get as close to a full board width fit at each doorway (A&B), adjusting the position of those starting rows until you get it. It's more important to get the rows square to the joining rooms though, so you might have to slice a little more off one doorway board than the other.

Once you get the position just right, mark the floor, nail or screw down your board stops and start nailing. Make your final measurements precise at each of those doorways so the boards will fit well. Before you nail or glue them in place,, finish the edges that meet so you have a good look that fools the eye.

Barry Carlton said View Post
I would dry lay from one door way to the other and see where I came out. As Jim says, there is a possibility that they won't match up, however if the job was all done at once the same problem would have to been addressed at that time, right? It may well be close enough to install one area with a little more "oomph" as you nail and the other with a little more "finesse" to make any adjustments you need to. A dry fit will give you a close idea of what your next step should be and where.
Your scenario might make a real pro shudder. A DIYer? Fahgeddaboudit. Getting the boards to have the same fit dry and nailed down just ain't gonna happen. Going around an island is difficult enough, but here you got those walls to contend with and the flooring that has already been nailed down to meet up with. Maybe worth a try, but pretty doubtful they will meet. And you don't know if the other rooms are straight to the new rooms.

Maybe a better approach would be to just start at doorway A and hope for a good fit by the time he gets to doorway B. My fear is having to add a really narrow piece in at that point. It sure would make that doorway look odd.

Jim
PS: this flooring can be glued, so there's no need for splines except at the doorways A & B. Maybe not even there.
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Old December 7, 2012, 08:02 PM   #13
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You definitely have your hands full. Let me see if I can explain how i handle this situation and keep it clear as mud.

First off for this to work the existing boards at doorways a and b need to be full width boards ie.. have the tongue or groove or replaced with full boards.

To start off all the yellow lines in the attached pic are going to be chalk lines and they need to be measured as precise as possible. The red #1 line is any chosen existing board joint a few rows back from door "b" that runs the length of the existing wood floor. Now we just follow the numbers and snap some lines.

Start with your chosen red line and measure thru both doorways "the measurement number you pick doesn't matter as long as there both the same and it allows you to snap line 2". Now snap line 2.

Take an exact measurement from line 2 to the wood at doorway a. Now take that measurement and measure from line 2 to both sides of line 5 and snap line 5. At this point if you dry stack from doorway b to line 5 and it lines up close to perfect then it is possible for everything to match up, if it doesn't well then its time for plan b.

Assuming line 5 lines up now we need to snap lines 3 and 4 which are the same as starting lines you would have to start a new room. To get that line dry stack on board in doorway a. Now take a measurement from line 2 to the board you just dry stacked in door a. Take that measurement and transfer it to the pink lines and snap line 3. The first row you put into that room needs to line up with that chalk line. Now just follow the same procedure for line 4. These two starting lines are very important.

After all that just keep it consistent and keep measuring from line 2 to stay on track.

Yup 1st post for me...hope it helps and this place is great!
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Old December 7, 2012, 08:48 PM   #14
dkesslar
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Jim: You want to go the same direction as the old hardwood, right?
Answer: Yes

Jim: Getting the boards to have the same fit dry and nailed down just ain't gonna happen.
Reply: yeah, that concerns me some.

Jeffket: boards at doorways a and b need to be full width boards
Reply: full width boards at both openings. I believe when I did the first job, I started at A

So, here's where I am at the end of tonight. I did a dry fit 'semi-circle' from B to A and felt pretty good about how things looked / fit etc. Then, I used my construction pencil to draw a line along each board as I pulled them back one at a time. I think I will turn some (like the ones nearest A and B) into chalk lines and start from both A and B and try to keep on track on those lines... at least, that's what I'm considering. We'll sdee what the light of day after a good sleep changes. I'll re-read all the posts here and go for it I suppose.

Thanks again guys.

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Old December 7, 2012, 09:17 PM   #15
Daris Mulkin
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Jeffket a great 1st post and welcome to the crowd. I think you explained it very well, even I could understand it and that was exactly how I was thinking it should be done.
Again great post.

Daris

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