This discussion, "Installation - where to start", in Hardwood and Laminates Q&A (part of the category Do-It-Yourself & Consumer Support), begins, "Hi there,
In starting my hardwood job, I am doing the second level of a 2-storey house. At the top ..."
In starting my hardwood job, I am doing the second level of a 2-storey house. At the top of the stairs, the hallway goes left and right into bedrooms. I am going to be installing my floors in parallel with the hallway (long-ways), but wanted to know, should I be starting at the top step (using a stair nosing) and then moving back towards the walls and bedrooms?
If so, how do I secure the stair nose in to get a professional look? Do I have to face nail this piece in or can I just staple on the tongue and then put a nail from underneath the step???
Any other potential common obstacles you can think of, just let me know.
You need to do some planning. First which way are the floor joist running? your wood should run across the joist NOT with them. 2nd. figure your width of the hall with the width of the wood so you dont end up with a 1/2" wide rip to finish along the wall or in the doorways or at the stairnose depending on which way you go. We usually install stairnose and thresholds first and go to them, but you could build off of them. I install stair nose several ways, with subfloor adhesive and a 15 ga finish gun top nail on raw wood. Prefinished I will still glue it but I use either an 18 ga brad or 22 ga pin nailer. You can blind nail in bottom of groove but you risk snapping off bottom of groove, the glue is what holds it, the nails just hold it till the glue sets.
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Do it right the first time and you don't have to do it twice
Here's my floor plan. I will be covering the following rooms only:
- Bedrooms 1, 3 and 4 (and their closets)
- Hallway.
** Bedroom 2 already has hardwood so I will be running up to this.
So question is, I am thinking about starting at the stair nosing at the steps and working backwards. I am running parallel with the hallway (as determined in another posting). I am going to run right into bedrooms 1 and 4, so question besides starting at the stair nosing is, do I run 1 straight row from one side of the house to the other (through the hallway) and work from there?
Let me preface this by saying you will very likely get more than one idea of how to start and get through this project. Looking at your diagram, I can see there are several ways you can accomplish the job. My tendency would be to recommend to the do-it-yourselfer to use a saddle (aka threshold or any other number of regional names) at each doorway. This way you break the job into 4 manageable pieces and each one can be started from the longest, straightest wall. You would butt to each of the saddles (install the saddles only when you get to that point in the installation).
My choice would be to begin in the hallway along the common wall of the #2 bedroom. I would take careful measurements and start so that I would not end up with a very skinny piece of flooring along the oposite wall or at the point where the stairnose begins.
At some point you will need some spline material (some will call it a "slip tounge"), so that you can reverse direction and continue. Install always so that the tounge always leads to the next groove. I would have at the ready about 60' of spline (acclimate it for at least a day and return what you have left over). You will use it whenever you have to reverse direction and where you butt into the saddles.
Don't forget to under-cut the door casings so the flooring goes under them instead of around them. Snap chalk lines and follow them to keep the layout straight. If you are using nails, staples or cleats, keep checking the gun to make sure you aren't out - many guns do not make a discernable noise when you run out. If you are using adhesive, make sure the trowel notches are the right size (see the bucket for guidance) and only spread what you can install in the limited working time allowed - and usually only as much as you can safely reach at a time.
If you are set on making the run straight through with no saddles, your starting point will differ, but the methods will not. I still would not start at the stairnose. I would start along the common wall with the bathroom, but I would begin enough away from the wall to get my first row down as the run-through. If you're using only glue, get 3 rows down and call it a day. Then you'll have a solid base to work from.
Good luck and, if you can, post some progress photos. We'd love to see the job chronicled in pictures. Thanks for sharing your project with us.
Jim
PS: I was a flooring installer in my other life.
So that being said and I do run straight through (and start on the hallway wall near bath2 as you said), I will be running back towards the stair nose piece. Question then is, how would I secure the stair nose in place if I am running into the stair nose grove - or is this where I put in a spline and reverse direction? Can I staple into a spline? How else would you secure this stair nose in place (i.e. face nail, glue, etc?) as this is the most visible piece of the floor.
I know it will be much more difficult to run straight through, but think it would be the most professional looking, wouldn't you agree?
So that being said and I do run straight through (and start on the hallway wall near bath2 as you said), I will be running back towards the stair nose piece.
I would start with the groove of the first row facing the bathroom wall and work toward bedroom 2. Get 3 or 4 rows down and stop for the day if you are using glue. Continue toward the bedroom and complete the hallway on that side before anything else.
Question then is, how would I secure the stair nose in place if I am running into the stair nose grove - or is this where I put in a spline and reverse direction? Can I staple into a spline? How else would you secure this stair nose in place (i.e. face nail, glue, etc?) as this is the most visible piece of the floor.
Yes, this is where you insert the spline and reverse direction, moving toward the bathroom and step. Part of your prep would have included removing the lip existing in the subfloor over your step (I saw your other post). This is so your stairnose will have a stronger base and also because the over-hang will be thicker than the nose' drop, which will look funny.
Position the stairnose piece and mark it with a pencil where the grooved side meets on the floor. Install your flooring right up to that line, which means you will have to rip the last piece down and then route a groove into it (adjust your grooving bit in the router so it is exactly the same as the groove in the stairnose).
Depending on the flooring, I might add face nails to the stairnose (angled so they lean toward bedroom 2) to give it strength, but proper prep and a good quality adhesive will provide an excellent bond that will hold the stairnose. The problem with face nails is hiding them. You can drive cleats, nails and staples into the spline, but the spline has to be a very good fit and you must be careful of splitting it. If the gauge of the fastener is too thick, I would just glue the spline in. Add glue to the groove of the stairnose as well.
I know it will be much more difficult to run straight through, but think it would be the most professional looking, wouldn't you agree?
That is subjective, so there is no right answer to that question. I never liked doing straight layouts. I prefer mixing it up a little. Here's a diagonal installation I did at my own home:
Good luck with your project. I am enjoying you keeping us involved.
I like that advice. I am stapling, so no need to stop to wait for glue to dry. What I will do is start near the bathroom2 wall like you indicated and run towards bedroom2. The reverse direction and get the stair nosing. Let's see how close I can get it without having to cut and router that last piece ;->
Now, if I am starting just in of bathroom2, and running straight through bedroom 1 and 4, how do I ensure a straight line across. I know there has to be a trick to this other than visually inspecting.
Thanks!
ps. I'll try and take some pics of the current setup so you can see it.
my next move is undercutting jambs and trimming drywall (as per my other post).
Originally Posted by Jim McClain
I would start with the groove of the first row facing the bathroom wall and work toward bedroom 2. Get 3 or 4 rows down and stop for the day if you are using glue. Continue toward the bedroom and complete the hallway on that side before anything else.
Yes, this is where you insert the spline and reverse direction, moving toward the bathroom and step. Part of your prep would have included removing the lip existing in the subfloor over your step (I saw your other post). This is so your stairnose will have a stronger base and also because the over-hang will be thicker than the nose' drop, which will look funny.
Position the stairnose piece and mark it with a pencil where the grooved side meets on the floor. Install your flooring right up to that line, which means you will have to rip the last piece down and then route a groove into it (adjust your grooving bit in the router so it is exactly the same as the groove in the stairnose).
Depending on the flooring, I might add face nails to the stairnose (angled so they lean toward bedroom 2) to give it strength, but proper prep and a good quality adhesive will provide an excellent bond that will hold the stairnose. The problem with face nails is hiding them. You can drive cleats, nails and staples into the spline, but the spline has to be a very good fit and you must be careful of splitting it. If the gauge of the fastener is too thick, I would just glue the spline in. Add glue to the groove of the stairnose as well.
That is subjective, so there is no right answer to that question. I never liked doing straight layouts. I prefer mixing it up a little. Here's a diagonal installation I did at my own home:
Good luck with your project. I am enjoying you keeping us involved.
...Now, if I am starting just in of bathroom2, and running straight through bedroom 1 and 4, how do I ensure a straight line across. I know there has to be a trick to this other than visually inspecting.
Chalk line is your friend. Or a laser. Looks like the longest common wall space is the master bedroom wall that runs out into the hall just to the edge of the steps. Take a measurement off the far end of the bedroom, drive a nail and hook your chalk line loop over it. Take the line into the far end of bedroom 4 and have a friend guide you to the point that meets the same measurement you took in the hallway, just at the edge of the steps. When you line up there, have your friend press straight down on the line to the floor. You snap your end, your friend snaps the line on each side of their finger and you walk down to the other end and snap the line once more. This will give you a good line you can see all the way through. Coat the mark with hair spray or spray shelack so it doesn't disappear on you. That's your guide.
Jim
PS: I wish some of the other guys would chime in here - we have some award winners here and they may have better ideas than me. Floorguy? Jerry? Some a you other guys?
I wish some of the other guys would chime in here - we have some award winners here and they may have better ideas than me. Floorguy? Jerry? Some a you other guys?
So, it's taken a while (to both finish and post pics), but here are some pics of the finished job. I'm happy with the results - worth the sweat and frustrations along the way!
Thanks to everyone for their input on this one - now I'm off to installing on my main level (although I have a new challenge of feathering in to existing floors)...
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