First timer questions re 5" plank flooring

[jromeo27]

Hello board. I've been reading up for a few weeks, and have found this site to be, by far the most helpful to me. Thanks to all the folks who have answered others questions. You are assisting more people than you might realize. I'll share my questions in the hope that they may help others as well. I have a number of questions, some general, some specific to my situation. First let me provide some background info. I am a fairly experienced DIYer, but this is my first hardwood flooring adventure. I am installing aprox 600 sq feet of 3/4 inch x 5 inch wide tigerwood flooring on the main floor of my home (solid hardwood, prefinished). It is going over 5/8 plywood perpendicular to the joists. The main floor is over a full finished basement. The flooring has been in my home almost 2 weeks and will be sitting at least a week more before the sub floor is ready. I will be using cleats, and have purchased a porter cable pneumatic nailer which I plan on selling back on e-bay when the job is done (I'll be spreading this job out over several weeks and renting was prohibitive). Hopefully that's enough background, now here are some questions:

1. If 15 lb felt is generally recommended as underlayment, is 30 lb felt a better choice? Why or why not?

2. I'm concerned about leaving enough room for expansion and recommendations range from 1/4 inch to 3/4 inch. I'm planning on leaving 1/2 inch. Is this sufficent since I am using wider boards?

3. Regarding expansion, I have read that it is sometimes recommended with wider boards to leave expansion space every 10 (15?) rows or so by using dimes or washers, etc. as temp spacers when nailing. I'd be interested in other people's opinion on this.

4. If I figure out how to do it, I'll be attaching a file to this post with a very "not to scale" illustration of my floor layout and the order I intent to lay it. My longest run is colored in red and will be my starting point. I'll then spine and change direction and cover the blue area in my dining room. Lastly, I complete the family room (green), starting at the opposite wall, and working toward the red I plan on having a 1/2 or so gap where red and green areas meet which will be covered by T- molding to allow for an area of expansion. I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions, and am willing to consider any other ideas.

Thanks in advance for whatever advice comes my way.

[stullis]

1) 15 # is plenty, you may want to have some 30# around as well depending on how much shimming you may need to do. Check the floor for flatness, use the roofing paper to shim up area that are low and sanding or plane areas that are high. YOu could use AquaBar or red rosin paper as well if you like.

2) A good rule of thumb is to space the thickness of the wood if solid. There are expansion factors that can also be figured in if you want to get more exact but generally isn't necessary. More room is need for the width of the boards than the length as that is where most of the expansion is in lumber. Personally I would under cut the sheetrock and then cut within an 1/8-1/4" of the sheet rock. More depending on thickness of base and if baseshoe or quarter round is going to be used. More expansion is always better.

3) You may or may not need spacers. Judging roughly at your drawing I'd be inclined to not use spacers on this job. Your widths don't seem to be that big.

4) The use of a T- Mold is alright if you don't mind that look. Most of my customers would prefer not to have one and if you used spacers at that area I'd just continue to run right on through and do the green area.

[jromeo27]

Thanks for the reply Stullis. To give you a little better scale the green area is roughly 16 x 20 and the 2 front rooms are roughly 12 x 12 with a 10 x 12 foyer area between them. I was asking about the 30 lb felt as I have several rolls laying around already and want to be sure it's ok to use it vs. going out and buying 15 lb rolls. I like the idea of undercutting the drywall, and will most likely do so to get the extra room for expansion. I really like the look of the wider boards, but I think I might of been reading up too much and have had the fear of expansion with wide boards put into my head.

I would prefer to run straight though that doorway as opposed to using a T molding but was worried that if my house isn't perfectly square, any deviation would be amplified by the time I got to the opposite side of the house. The cut out on the far wall of the green area is actually a tiled hearth area in front of my fireplace. I was concerned that being off would be all the more noticable along the edge of the tiled area.

You talked about shimming/sanding for level. I have one dip that's about 3/8" (low joist), and a few small high spots. I've heard that within 1/8" over 6 feet is acceptable. What guidelines do you recommend?

Thanks! - John

[Peter Kodner]

What are your joist sizes, spans and spacing? 5/8 plywood is the minimum allowable subfloor thickness. I would check carefully for any deflective movement. You should use 2" barbed cleats spaced 8" with a cleat within 1-3" from each end.

I would double check your manufacturers specs on the subfloor- they may have a more stringent requirement!

I would not generally refer to felt as an underlayment but as a vapor retarder. There are several vapor barrier products available of which Aquabar is one. I, and the industry, do not recommend rosin paper. It has no usefulness as a retarder.

With all due respect to stullis, I would not only undercut your drywall, but still keep the full 3/4" expansion space at all vertical surfaces. From what you have said, your room dimensions will not necessitate any additional expansion in the field, i.e. spacers.

Be very careful with your acclimation. Not only are you using plank, but it is an exotic species. I advise verifying your subfloor and flooring are within 2% moisture content of each other. There will probably be debate here, but the ONLY way you can know is to check with a good invasive moisture meter. Complete and successful acclimation is achieved with a moisture content measurement not with a time measurement!

[jromeo27]

My joists are 2x10's 16" on center, 12 foot span in the red area, 16 foot in green (beam on posts supports wall between the two areas). Subfloor is 5/8" plywood nailed to joists. my sub floor feels solid with no deflection noted. Flooring will lay perpendicular to joists. Manufacturer states 5/8" is allowable but is the minimal thickness. Is there any benefit to screwing on a 1/4" overlay? This would be the most I could do without running into problems with front door clearance.

Regarding moisture content... I am hoping to get a little help from one of your members with this. I happen to live very close to Jerry (who seems to be very active on these boards). I e-mailed him a week or so ago with a request to hire him for a consultation, and hope that he will be able to help me with getting an accurate moisture reading. He had replied to my e-mail and gave me his phone number. He stated he was quite busy at the moment, but would keep my information on hand if he had some free time. We had a big home show in our area this weekend, and I didn't want to bug him if he was there, but I do plan on calling him this week. Perhaps he'll see this post, and be expecting my call.

[Peter Kodner]

It does sound like you have done your homework and good to go
Only comment I would add is with plank, be aware seasonal gapping is very likely. With wider boards you will see wider gaps. As long as they come and go seasonally, this will be a normal characteristic.

Tigerwood is a beautiful floor and I'm looking forward to seeing some photos of your job.

[stullis]

With all the staple/fastner penetration how much vapor retardation do you think one achieves Peter? Is it really a necessity? I have always used roofing felt but most of the hardwood guys in my area use red rosin.

Which brings up another question, where may all this moisture be coming from?
Is this over a finished or unfinished basement or a crawl space?

Jerry, being from the area, would be a great resource if you can get him to do a consult!

[cproader]

stullis said With all the staple/fastner penetration how much vapor retardation do you think one achieves Peter? Is it really a necessity? I have always used roofing felt but most of the hardwood guys in my area use red rosin. Which brings up another question, where may all this moisture be coming from? Is this over a finished or unfinished basement or a crawl space? Jerry, being from the area, would be a great resource if you can get him to do a consult!

I use a Kraft laminated saturated because I have always hoped that as the fastener is entering through the saturation, that the heat of the entry wound is somewhat seared to the fastener......am I all wet...

[stullis]

I think you are wet.

[Peter Kodner]

I think it is pretty cheap insurance for minimizing rapid MC changes from a subfloor.

[Jerry Thomas]

Hi John, you're in good hands here, everything they said is correct, these guys know alot more than I do.

I'm about to hit a stopping point I hope. Call me on that cell number I gave you during the day or at home (977-3969). I would be glad to meet up with you and see what you got going.


Still keep posting questions here though.... it would help people doing searches for information.

I bought two lots down there way back when ..... wish I had held on to them

[jromeo27]

Thanks for the reply Jerry (and everybody else). I had a feeling you'd see my post and reply. I've give you a call later this week. As my project progresses, I think this forum will be one of my more valuable tools. I'll keep posting my questions, and I'll post some pictures along the way.