Brand new house - Horrible hardwood floors.

July 7, 2008, 07:55 PM

Hi and thanks to everyone for these invaluable info.

Just bought this two family house (brand new). The noise from the tenant upstairs (baby running, dog, footfall in addition to a cracking noise with every step from upstairs -sounds like a thin woodstick breaking- ) are just more than a normal person can take.

I've installed carpets with thick padding at my cost so the footfall is a bit better but the cracking (not squeeking but fast repetitive cracking with every other step... and it's getting worse every week or so) is just plain horrible. I'm ready to lose the house all together if this problem can't be fixed (and trust me, I'm in no position) but it's such a pain and so depressing...

I've considered putting cement boards and tiles on top of the hardwood floor upstairs to stop the noise from travelling through... All the sound proofing methods I'm reading about are not too re-assuring!!!

I'm ready for a major investment in making the noise go away (although it's so depressing being a brand new house) Any suggestion... Please help.

Many thanks,
Joe.

TFP Admin · July 7, 2008, 08:41 PM

Hi Joe, thanks for posting your dilemma.

Seems like this should be a building contractor punch list deal - or a plain ol' call-back. Something's going on with the floor joists/subfloor or something and it's not the way it should be. Have you contacted the builder?

Anyway, we have some very fine professional minds here. I have no doubt they will help you out.

T
PS: You don't have to register if you don't want, of course, but there will be no delay in your messages getting posted if you do - and it's free. http://www.thefloorpro.com/community/register.php Just in case.

rusty baker · July 7, 2008, 08:47 PM

When a builder air nails the subfloor down, they often can't tell if they miss the joist. If they do, it can make a lot of noise. Most states require a 1 year warranty on a new house. I would call the builder.

July 7, 2008, 09:42 PM

Thanks for the prompt replies. (I tried to register but the button is not taking me to the correct page. -inactive- I'll try from my PC @ work tomorrow)

I thought about calling the builder but I'm dreading the hassle of defining what's an acceptable level of noise and what's not... I know he's gonna say: "well, you can't have a baby running and not hear it" And maybe he's right but this is my first time in a two family house (have lived in co-ops with people above me in the past, so when realtor warned me of second floor noise I said I already have people above where I lived before and it never bothers me (sometimes it is audible but not disturbing) Not the case is this house! It's just driving me nuts.

- I think you're right, from the quality (poor) of everything else in the house, I could see them Air-Nailing the floors in a couple of hours. That's why they feel soft and wabbly at certain areas and of course with that you get the noise!

-Is there any merit to just screwing in the hardwood floor to the plywood & joists throughout the house and then putting some concrete boards and laying ceramic tiling over the whole thing? I know this is on the silly side but I'm desparate! I'm thinking if the whole celing becomes (as close to as possible) a solid surface, then there would be less vibration and thus less noise.

The solution I'm reading about (RSIC Channels, Green Glue, underlayments) just doesn't strike me as a final solution... (I'm used to concrete ceilings and floors where I came from where privacy is never an issue.)

Sorry for venting and for the long post! Just like the proffesional approach you guys have (although the sound isolation might not be your biggest thing) but I guess you've seen it all out there :-)

Many thanks in advance of any coments & Good luck to all.

Joe.

TFP Admin · July 7, 2008, 09:53 PM

Joe72 said

... (I tried to register but the button is not taking me to the correct page. -inactive- I'll try from my PC @ work tomorrow) ...

The link I gave in my last post should take you directly to the registration page. Let me know what the page says if it isn't. I'd like to take care of any problems others might encounter too.

Thanks.

T

Joes72 · July 7, 2008, 10:10 PM

Thanks T. Link worked perfect but the "register" button top right is broken.

kwfloors · July 7, 2008, 10:33 PM

I did a house once where they didn't want to hear the upstairs downstairs and what they did was put in false ceiling under the existing ceiling and put that 1/2 inch felt board on that ceiling covered with sheetrock. It really worked. The thing is that if you do another layer on top the sound will still travel thru the joists to the ceiling underneith. I have seen some new products I think it was in Jobsite or Fine Homebuilding magazine along the lines of silencing noise from upstairs. You need to brake the travel of the noise thru the joists by suspending a independant ceiling of some kind. The same thing is like on a supergood sense home for making cold and hot air from coming in thru the walls. They frame another wall in front of the outer framed wall with it not touching each other so it can't transfer thru the studs.

TFP Admin · July 7, 2008, 10:38 PM

Joes72 said

Thanks T. Link worked perfect but the "register" button top right is broken.

I checked the address linked to with that button, but it seems fine. I clicked it and was taken to the registration page. Can you tell me what browser you used and what the page said when you clicked it? I don't know what you mean by "broken."

Thanks and glad you joined.

T

Barry Carlton · July 7, 2008, 10:56 PM

Now you got 'T' all distracted and worried. we won't see him back for days

barry

welcome aboard it should be a fun ride.

Kman · July 8, 2008, 12:48 AM

Joe, before you even consider putting in another floor on top of the existing floor, or even replacing the existing floor, you need to know what size floor joists you have, as well as the thickness and type of subfloor. If they're underated for the flooring you plan to use, you could wind up with an even bigger mess.

I agree with Rusty, though. It's probably a case of nails missing the floor joists. It could also be inadequate floor joists for the span.

Either way, I'd call the builder.

Good luck.

Nick Arrera · July 8, 2008, 03:36 AM

New Home .. Call the builder .. Seems like it is his problem to rip it up and fix .. I have ripped up enough floors in my time so the builder could renail them ..

Tandy Reeves · July 8, 2008, 05:29 AM

What type wood floor? I inspected one not long ago that was Australian Cyprus, and almost all of the tongues were split and it was making sounds very similar to what you describe.

Get the builder involved and tell him up front you do not want a hassel over this you just want it fixed.

Welcome

Joes72 · July 8, 2008, 08:42 AM

Thanks everyone for the informative replies. I'll try to give more info bellow:

- T: I'm using I.E. 7.0 and sorry to report that the same problem is happening @ my work PC too. (I click on "Register", the button looks like it's pressed, nothing happens at all.)

- According to the builder the wood floor is "peach" It does look good with light color finish but it doesn't feel solid at all! (I actually ruined a part of it using my own Air-Nailer to make the noise go away (now I have small nail holes in parts of te floos :-( ... it worked for a few days but the noise came back again (that's the cracking noise) I'm thinking screwes should have been used so that the wood doesn't slide over the nails and make that horrible noise.

- If I rip out my ceiling, can anything be done from underneath to help the situation? Like can I nail upwards through the plywood?

- I know the joists are 16" apart and I think they look decent (I ripped up part of the sheetrock ) I'd say 3" by 12" and they span a good 12-13 feet across the house. I know there is also plywood but not sure how thick.

BTW, now that I'm thinking about this, when I first bought the house (7 months ago) things were not that bad (the cacking noise) but then I started notcing long splits between the wood plates (that make the hardwood floor). Some of them as long as 7 feet and there are like 10 of them more or less... I guess as these splits happened, the noise starting to become more noticable! Is this even normal? I understand that wook expands and shrinks but is it that noticable (You can almost fit a quarter in some of the splits)

- After hearing what guys have to say, I guess I shouldn't touch the top level floor (at least cancel the concrete/tile idea) and concentrate on my ceiling (make a fake ceiling and use some sort of felt bord)

- The RSIC Channels solution suggests screwing clips to the joists from my ceiling and then installing sheetrock on the clips (they have a rubber fader that's supposed to absorb the noise) I guess that would help with the foot fall and the banging noise (from the baby and the dog running) but not as much as with the cracking noise (that one is really sharp and loud and I guess it's gets amplified as it hits the hollow space between their floor and my ceiling)

Is it realistic of me to expect that the cracking noise should not be there? or is everybody with people on top living with this nightmare?

Many many many thanks for your opinions and help (Can't tell you how glad I am to hear what you guy think, I was so desparate and was going to rip out the carpet upstairs and start tiling this weekend (DIY of course) :-)

Kman · July 8, 2008, 10:05 AM

Sounds like there may be a problem with the hardwood floors, how they're nailed down. It could be an issue of too short of a nail being used, or maybe the nails were too far apart to be effective. If they're splitting open that wide after only seven months, that shouldn't happen. Some shrinkage and/or cupping of wood in some circumstances can happen after a few years, but not seven months.

Nick Arrera · July 8, 2008, 10:43 AM

Can you post some pictures of the gaps ? Sounds like part of the problem is installation related .. Abnormal gaps caused by excessive moisture in the wood or sub floor at time of install .. You might consider getting a certified inspector to look at it .. there are plenty on here that might be near you .. Aside from that have you tried Fire Fox for your browser .. A lot faster , and safer ..