Hardwood Installation - Contract Question

[davesaint86]

I bought 600 sq ft of 3/4 - 3 1/2" pre-finished hardwood. I'm prepping the dining room and great room but moving the furniture, carpet, pad, strips, staples, etc. I'm also going to add the the roofing felt. I'm contracting out the install itself. The contractor wants 50% at the signing of the contract and the other 50% at job completion. I can understand doing this if he was supplying material also. Is this a standard practice for a contractor that is just doing the install?

Dave

[Jim McClain]

If I understand you correctly, you are going to install the felt paper? The floor needs to be checked for flatness before that happens and if there are any high or low spots, they need to be corrected - before the felt paper. If your installer has agreed to let you install the felt before checking for flatness, that is not a good sign.

Fifty percent deposit isn't unusual, but it does seem high for just installation. Ten percent would be more inline. See if you can find out what contractor law says. In California, it's 10%. It doesn't necessarily mean the installer who asks for 50% is a bad guy, but this one already has points against him for the flatness issue.

My recommendation would be to get one or two more estimates and see what those installers say. You might also ask the installer for references - and check them.

Good luck,

Jim

[Kman]

The contractor wants 50% at the signing of the contract and the other 50% at job completion.

The way things are today? I don't know, I have a hard time paying someone for work they haven't done, especially when they're supplying no materials. Probably the only way I'd agree to that is if we signed the contract right there on the job site on the day he begins installation, and then it wouldn't be 50%. I know there are some who demand some money up front, and I would do the same thing if I had some of my own money in materials that I had to deliver. The way I look at it though, is that once you give him a check, he has half the money. No matter what. If he goes out of business, or has a heart attack, or leaves town, or has a car wreck, or just does a crappy install and never comes back to fix it, etc. you're out half the money. I've seen that happen too many times. Do you get paid at your job before the weeks starts, or after the week is over? Everybody I know gets paid after.

But everything Jim said about checking the floor needs to be done first, no matter who does the install.

[Jerry Thomas]

I don't ask for deposits either on labor only jobs. Smart businesses want a deposit to mark time on the calendar, in that situation I think 20% would be fair.

[davesaint86]

Below are the terms. I think the contractor may not like his bid. He bid the whole job doing everything originally. The price for the wood install seems like a good price. However the price he was going to charge me for removing baseboards, carpet, etc, I thought was high so I decided to do this part myself. Since the floor is bare now maybe I should get new bids.

The sum of $580.50 to be paid upon the approval of this contract and the balance of $580.50 upon the completion of the work.

Owner Responsibility
Owner shall prep floor for hardwood flooring install (Removing baseboards, Carpet, Pad, and staples) (Adding roofing felt).
Owner shall supply hardwood flooring for installer to install.

Installer's Responsibility
Installer shall verify at least 3 days before the installation begins that prep work has been completed for both the Great Room and Dining Room. Installer is not responsible for prep work.
Installer shall use his own tools and nails.Installer shall install owner provided pre-finished wood flooring, flush-mount floor vents in owner's Great Room and Dining Room, and undercut the fireplace.
Installer will sweep the area worked in each day before leaving.
All flooring will be installed perpendicular to the floor joist.

[Danny Ferguson]

What about moisture content of wood and subfloor? Does the crawl space have mositure barrier? The floor prep part scares me. Installer has no responsibility of the subfloor. You could be leaving yourself wide open there.

[davesaint86]

There is not crawl space. The basement is a 10ft pour and is finished.

[davesaint86]

I had wood flooring installed at my previous house. I removed the baseboards, carpet, pad, etc at the other house and I do not remember these type of hassles. I paid that installer 1/3 up front because he provided the wood also. Never had an issue with the floor the who type I lived there. There are too many red flags here. I need to get new bids.

Thanks - Dave

[stullis]

That is a pathetically low bid and you are whining about the guy getting 50% down?

Just do the job yourself.

[davesaint86]

In is area the going rate seems to be $2-3 a sq foot if prep is not included and $3-4 if the installer removes the carpet, furniture, baseboards, etc.

What I'm trying to avoid is this guy coming in and starting the job and then in the middle of it tells me I did something wrong and that he will go ahead and fix it for $xxx.xx. Since I have the carpet and floor bare now I have no issue if he wants to come back and re-bid the job. I received two other bids and the labor portion for the other two bids was $1425 and $1700. This included the contractor removing and disposing of the carpet, pad, baseboards, moving furniture, etc. I would have used one of the other contractors but they wanted me to buy the flooring from them.

[Nick Arrera]

I don't let any customer do my floor prep .. That is just stupid .. Sounds like he is just going to nail it down and if the floor fails do to floor prep he is going to tell you it is not his fault .. I would tell him to take a hike .. Pay a little extra now for a good installer , or pay again to have it fixed because he is not coming back ..

[davesaint86]

Sounds like excellent advice. Will do.

[stullis]

You are getting the "going rate" quality and getting what you are paying for sounds like to me.

What specific brand material is this poor sap going to have to install? Have you picked it up or had it delivered? Is it placed placed where it can acclimate? Did you run moisture tests on the material/subfloor?

Just a few things that you pay for when you hire a quality guy which guess what, costs more!

I don't blame you for wanting to save some dough by doing some of it yourself and also avoiding the "Gotcha" hidden charges but lets face it you do not know what all is involved in doing a "proper job". No DIYer does.
Not that they can't do an adequate job but in my experience it is very rare they do the job properly. Heck most "pros" don't even know how to do a proper job especially carpenters, who like to think they work with wood so they can install wood flooring.

When you do part of the work and/or don't want to pay to have it done properly then you will, and should, be held responsible for your decision. Sounds fair don't you think?

Progress payment ok, deposit on labor not performed isn't cool. Busy installers have no problem moving clients up if someone cancels. Those that want half up front usually are having a cash flow problem. Then the thing with the prep...I'm usually wiling to help a client save money or work within a budget. I have periodically checked on clients' progress on prep and given pointers to bring it up to snuff.

[Ken]

Bottom Line is that this installer is knowingly relieving himself of all responsability with out giving the consumer an informed bid on the job. Sounds like he is selling you a used car.