Janka Scale

FlooringGirl · July 7, 2009, 10:10 PM

cproader said

All ya can do is give them yer best advice and let it go at that.....bet if ya went to her house, you would find somethin she aint tellin ya, like what the rugs are coverin up.....

Quite right! That is why we have these inspectors, to get to the bottom of things. I had a guy recently whose wood kitchen floor was marred all up, and he told the inspector he was using Mop-N-Glo! On exotic hardwood. Please!

Tia

Nick Arrera · July 8, 2009, 04:34 AM

Consumers don't know flooring . they get a lot of info commercials telling them what a great product this and that is .

Peter Kodner · July 8, 2009, 08:56 AM

There are many wood floors that are 3 or 4 hundred years old still performing extremely well (go visit any historical site of that age).

Gary, I see the dilemma you think you are faced with, but it is truly a matter of getting expectations in line with reality. I firmly believe this begins (and hopefully is completed) by the salesperson taking the time to educate the consumer. A fine art when the sale is based on perceived value by the consumer. I know a good sale is when the aesthetics the consumer wants is tempered by the practical information of what the long term appearance will be. Cannot have this discussion without spending time covering maintenance!
Fear or ignorance seems to me to be the major problem with a full and complete discussion before the sale is made.

I don't think this or any board is going to give you a sufficient amount of practical knowledge you can apply to your dealings with consumers. The subject is too broad not to have some formal, organized education to learn it.
I'm not minimizing what we all learn here, but training is something I have always, and will continue, to pursue. By the end of this year, I will have attended at least eight classes, seminars or other program to advance my understanding of flooring.

GaryS · July 9, 2009, 03:39 PM

Peter Kodner said

There are many wood floors that are 3 or 4 hundred years old still performing extremely well (go visit any historical site of that age).

Gary, I see the dilemma you think you are faced with, but it is truly a matter of getting expectations in line with reality. I firmly believe this begins (and hopefully is completed) by the salesperson taking the time to educate the consumer. A fine art when the sale is based on perceived value by the consumer. I know a good sale is when the aesthetics the consumer wants is tempered by the practical information of what the long term appearance will be. Cannot have this discussion without spending time covering maintenance!
Fear or ignorance seems to me to be the major problem with a full and complete discussion before the sale is made.

I don't think this or any board is going to give you a sufficient amount of practical knowledge you can apply to your dealings with consumers. The subject is too broad not to have some formal, organized education to learn it.
I'm not minimizing what we all learn here, but training is something I have always, and will continue, to pursue. By the end of this year, I will have attended at least eight classes, seminars or other program to advance my understanding of flooring.

Peter your advice or lack of it is to get knowledge which coming to a forum with lots of experts in the field I should be able to get here.

Yet you say that is unlikely I was asking for some general information on what to advise customers on when it came to hardwood floors. I am starting to think hardwood in general is a really crap idea unless you are prepared to spend cash on a regular basis for the mainteinance and upkeep of the floor.

So for some practical advice to give to customers don't bother with solids it is going to cost you lot's more to purchase and have it installed and then it will also cost you lots more in maintenance so unless money is no object buy a good laminate as the customer will probably be a lot happier with the way it still looks new in 5 - 10 years time.

GaryS · July 9, 2009, 03:46 PM

If you have to sand and refinish a solid every 6 months to maintain a reasonable finish the floor is not going to last very long at all ok if you can live with the distressed look then solids is the way to go otherwise avoid like the plague.

Ken · July 9, 2009, 03:48 PM

Gary you have obviously missed our point, our points were that as a salesperson you need to know about all types and the characterisitics of all types to properly advise a consumer on what may be the best floor for them,
If you are trying to get someone to say what wood is better than another, that if you think about it, if a personal choice as to color, grain, width and over all look of the floor,
As I stated earlier, wood floor is wood floor in as It will all dent, scratch, and show some "character over time"
If they want something that will look like new in 10 years then wood is not what they want is it? Neither is laminate but thats your opinion isnt it? Laminate at best looks cheap in my opinion. unless your using it for a dance floor in the basement or something similar.
So since what you are really asking is for us to give you are personal preferences when it comes to wood floors.
Tell them to go with a light colored and a satin finish that will hide the scratches better than dark colored products

cproader · July 9, 2009, 06:25 PM

I will not even install Laminate anymore. Decided a long time ago it was nothing I would put in my own house, so I wouldn't put it in anyone elses house either. As far as solid HWD, I installed a piano finish Merbau in a formal livingroom for a lady, and her neighbor loved it so much that she wanted some in her house. Problem is, she has kids and a large dog and wanted it in her familyroom and hallway. I told her that would not be a good idea. She got upset with me and hired someone else to instll it for her....well guess what, she calls the installer back about evry other month or so to replace damaged boards. People are gonna want what they want, and it doesn't really matter what you tell them, they know better........

FlooringGirl · July 9, 2009, 10:52 PM

cproader said

I will not even install Laminate anymore. Decided a long time ago it was nothing I would put in my own house, so I wouldn't put it in anyone elses house either. As far as solid HWD, I installed a piano finish Merbau in a formal livingroom for a lady, and her neighbor loved it so much that she wanted some in her house. Problem is, she has kids and a large dog and wanted it in her familyroom and hallway. I told her that would not be a good idea. She got upset with me and hired someone else to instll it for her....well guess what, she calls the installer back about evry other month or so to replace damaged boards. People are gonna want what they want, and it doesn't really matter what you tell them, they know better........

Piano finish is lovely, if you are a housekeeping freak. Last year, I sold about 900 sf (laminate single boards) to a woman, but she was obsessive on cleaning, so it worked for her. Actually gives her enjoyment to clean all the smudges.

I sell laminate as a temporary floor and inform my customers of this. Like carpet, it will someday need to be changed. Although, I put some in a very busy home in the country 12 years ago where they had 4 big dogs, lots of people in and out, and to this day they love it. Amazing.

As far as hardwood goes, I've had good and bad experiences. For example, I lived in a home with 3/4" all over from the 1940's, but that place sat empty for some time with no heating/cooling regulation and the boards shrank. Gaps everywhere, and they will never go back.

Tia

P.S. I don't know that I like this Gary guy.

Floorguy · July 10, 2009, 06:09 PM

cproader said

I will not even install Laminate anymore. Decided a long time ago it was nothing I would put in my own house, so I wouldn't put it in anyone elses house either. As far as solid HWD, I installed a piano finish Merbau in a formal livingroom for a lady, and her neighbor loved it so much that she wanted some in her house. Problem is, she has kids and a large dog and wanted it in her familyroom and hallway. I told her that would not be a good idea. She got upset with me and hired someone else to instll it for her....well guess what, she calls the installer back about evry other month or so to replace damaged boards. People are gonna want what they want, and it doesn't really matter what you tell them, they know better........

You should of did it! Think of the job security with that job. The job that keeps on paying!!!

Board replacement ain't cheap! I make a good living doing board repairs during slow times.

Palmetto Hardwood · July 25, 2009, 07:14 AM

Janka is just a scientific measure of hardness. You have a classroom knowledge and real world knowledge. I went to college so the classroom stuff is fine to pass the test and get the degree. But the bread is buttered by the real world hands on knowledge of the product you are working with.

Floorguy · July 25, 2009, 08:47 AM

Those consumers that have never had hardwood floors in their adult life, are the consumers that seldom have their expectations met, by any hardwood flooring. They pay a high premium for wood flooring, and with that high cost, and the marketed warranties/didn't read the fine print, they believe the floor should look like a table top after years of abusive foot traffic.

GaryS · July 26, 2009, 01:16 PM

Thanks Tia you don't know me but you don't like me as I happen to have an opinion that may be different from yours LOL.

GaryS · July 26, 2009, 01:57 PM

Ken said

Gary you have obviously missed our point, our points were that as a salesperson you need to know about all types and the characterisitics of all types to properly advise a consumer on what may be the best floor for them,
If you are trying to get someone to say what wood is better than another, that if you think about it, if a personal choice as to color, grain, width and over all look of the floor,
As I stated earlier, wood floor is wood floor in as It will all dent, scratch, and show some "character over time"
If they want something that will look like new in 10 years then wood is not what they want is it? Neither is laminate but thats your opinion isnt it? Laminate at best looks cheap in my opinion. unless your using it for a dance floor in the basement or something similar.
So since what you are really asking is for us to give you are personal preferences when it comes to wood floors.
Tell them to go with a light colored and a satin finish that will hide the scratches better than dark colored products

Satin or mat finish and a light colour rather then darker is exactly the kind of information I was after along with any other info that I can pass on to my customers so they can make an informed choice.

Scotland has a generally cold and wet climate and wet shoes tend to pick up small stones and track them into the house, the result is that solids get scratched very quickly and unless that is the look the customer is after they are usually not happy with the finish after a few months of the floor being down.

Most customers will ask for your opinion on how one floor will perform over another so it is more an attempt to gain some knowledge of the different options available, as you and others have pointed out all solids will scratch and dent, and having wet feet walk over an area that has the surface layer scratched off could also be a problem. Oily woods i suspect are probably better for this reason.

Tandy Reeves · July 26, 2009, 01:59 PM

Gary wood floors do not have to be sanded and finished every 6 to 8 months. If they should then the abuse is so sever that any other floor would have to be repaired or replaced in the same period. Please do not put wood floor in the same category as laminate. The only similarity is some of the melamine picture is made to look like wood.

If I still had a retail operation, I would not have my wood samples anywhere near my laminate samples because I would not want to confuse my customers.

Comparing the two is like a guy going into a bar and sees this good looking blond, and strikes up a conversation and one thing leads to another and as the evening is winding down ask the blond if she will go to his room with him. She accepts and then one thing leads to another and things start to get real interesting and suddenly the guy discovers she is a HE. That is the same difference between wood and laminate.

GaryS · July 26, 2009, 02:54 PM

Tandy Reeves said

Gary wood floors do not have to be sanded and finished every 6 to 8 months. If they should then the abuse is so sever that any other floor would have to be repaired or replaced in the same period. Please do not put wood floor in the same category as laminate. The only similarity is some of the melamine picture is made to look like wood.

If I still had a retail operation, I would not have my wood samples anywhere near my laminate samples because I would not want to confuse my customers.

Comparing the two is like a guy going into a bar and sees this good looking blond, and strikes up a conversation and one thing leads to another and as the evening is winding down ask the blond if she will go to his room with him. She accepts and then one thing leads to another and things start to get real interesting and suddenly the guy discovers she is a HE. That is the same difference between wood and laminate.

Interesting choice of comparison. Laminate and Wood are of course different products in this climate however laminate stands up to daily wear much much better than wood.

I still personally prefer the look of wood when it is first laid but the difficullty in maintaining the finish stops me from installing it in my own home. I am one of the many people who does not like the look of the scratches and dents you get with solids.