Janka Scale

GaryS · June 22, 2009, 03:05 PM

How do you guys feel that the janka scale effects the longevity of a hardwood floor.

kwfloors · June 22, 2009, 09:06 PM

What? A harder wood looks better longer than a softer wood?

Peter Kodner · June 23, 2009, 08:51 AM

I would not use the Janka test and the ratings of different woods as the sole basis for choosing a floor. There are far to many other factors to consider, Janka rating being one of the smaller concerns.

IMHO, this has become another marketing tool misused by some manufacturers and importers to create another red herring and draw attention form some of the less than ideal aspects of their products.

tn floorguy · June 23, 2009, 10:41 AM

Gary, I would have to agree with Peter....I try to avoid discussing the Janka scale whenever possible. It is a basic comparison between species, but (1) it doesn't address other aspects of a species, nor(2) does it take into account the construction of the hardwood product. A couple examples:

1: Maple is harder on the Janka scale than Red Oak, but because of maple's open, more subtle graining, it shows dents and dings far worse than Red Oak. Can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "but this floor is supposed to be harder than oak, and my oak floors never dented!" Their oak floors dented too, they just didn't show it.

2: You've installed an 3/8" engineered hickory floor..hickory is approx. 1820 on the JS, 1 1/2 times harder than red oak. So what? The veneer on 3/8" egd is only 1/12", maybe 1/10", on top of a core of another species, something like poplar or another cheap soft hardwood that will dent easily.

TFP Admin · June 23, 2009, 11:17 AM

Great first post, TN Floorguy. Glad to have you here.

Jim

Dan Schultz · June 23, 2009, 02:30 PM

Peter Kodner said

I would not use the Janka test and the ratings of different woods as the sole basis for choosing a floor. There are far to many other factors to consider, Janka rating being one of the smaller concerns.

IMHO, this has become another marketing tool misused by some manufacturers and importers to create another red herring and draw attention form some of the less than ideal aspects of their products.

Well said, Peter.

tn floorguy said

Gary, I would have to agree with Peter....I try to avoid discussing the Janka scale whenever possible. It is a basic comparison between species, but (1) it doesn't address other aspects of a species, nor(2) does it take into account the construction of the hardwood product. A couple examples:

1: Maple is harder on the Janka scale than Red Oak, but because of maple's open, more subtle graining, it shows dents and dings far worse than Red Oak. Can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "but this floor is supposed to be harder than oak, and my oak floors never dented!" Their oak floors dented too, they just didn't show it.

2: You've installed an 3/8" engineered hickory floor..hickory is approx. 1820 on the JS, 1 1/2 times harder than red oak. So what? The veneer on 3/8" egd is only 1/12", maybe 1/10", on top of a core of another species, something like poplar or another cheap soft hardwood that will dent easily.

Also well said tn floorguy. Welcome aboard!

Nick Arrera · June 23, 2009, 03:26 PM

Welcome aboard

rgfloor · June 23, 2009, 04:14 PM

Welcome, TnFloorguy!!

Jump in and enjoy!

cproader · June 23, 2009, 06:16 PM

...............

Ken · June 23, 2009, 07:26 PM

In reality the hardness of the floor will have very little to do with the longevity of the flooring.
Proper installation, type and amount of use (or abuse which ever you prefer) and the care and maintenance of the flooring are much more important to the floors longevity.
take the time to find out the qualities of the flooring you chose and to make sure that it is maintianed not just cleaned, but enviromentally maintained so the floor will last and you do not void your warranty.

FlooringGirl · June 23, 2009, 08:38 PM

Darn right. I have a customer right now who got a house full of timborana (harder than oak), and now has abused it and wants to blame it on me, even though he researched the species prior to his purchase. Not happening.
Tia

Ken said

In reality the hardness of the floor will have very little to do with the longevity of the flooring.
Proper installation, type and amount of use (or abuse which ever you prefer) and the care and maintenance of the flooring are much more important to the floors longevity.
take the time to find out the qualities of the flooring you chose and to make sure that it is maintianed not just cleaned, but enviromentally maintained so the floor will last and you do not void your warranty.

GaryS · June 24, 2009, 07:53 AM

Hi Folks

Thank's for the replies.

It is predominately laminates that I fit maybe due to the Scottish climate so I have limited experience with the different species of hardwood available for flooring, The main one's I have done in the past being Oak as it is cheap and readily available or American Walnut.

It has been the lacquered finish of these woods that seem to be the main problem rather than any issues with hardness though the issue of how hard the flooring is I would expect will still have some bearing on this.

I understand that choosing an oiled finish rather than a lacquered finish or at least a matt lacquered finish rather than gloss help though any other advice as to other aspects that I should be looking at will be appreciated.

Peter Kodner · June 24, 2009, 10:03 AM

Gary, American walnut is quite soft and will indent readily. Couple that with the darkness and grain, it shows more than most other woods. Grew up in a house with walnut parquet and I personally love the look it achieves with traffic. Most people do not though. Then again, I understand floor are meant to be walked on

While penetrating oil is sti;ll used here, it is rare. Almost all finishes are either oil modified urethane, water borne urethane or moisture cured urethane. Conversation varnish is still used, but again it is rare.

Lacquer and shellac are not used due to flammability and environmental issues.

The predominant finishes here, and this is sad IMHO, are factory finished.

GaryS · June 24, 2009, 10:42 AM

Hi Peter

That is the case here too where the normal would be a factory pre finish for most woods though unfinished wood is available the extra cost to the customer getting it finished on site over the factory finish makes it a more expensive and a more time consuming option for the customer.

I am aware of the drawbacks of American Walnut as it is one of the few floors that I have experience with. Granted the finished floor is really beautiful if maintained properly.

That said my knowledge of the different solid floor options is limited so the question about the Janka scale and relative hardness of the different species of wood available as flooring options is a way to try learn about the different options available. It has been pointed out that this is probably not a good guide to use when choosing a floor so I will be interested to learn what aspects of the flooring material I should be looking at if not the hardness rating.

Floorguy · June 24, 2009, 06:40 PM

FlooringGirl said

Darn right. I have a customer right now who got a house full of timborana (harder than oak), and now has abused it and wants to blame it on me, even though he researched the species prior to his purchase. Not happening.
Tia

It is the consumers that have never had wood flooring before, that think the janka scale is the holy grail. What they don't understand is the protocol of the janka testing. The pressure listed is the amount of pressure it takes to sink that ½" ball, a ¼" into the wood fibers. It takes less psi to get the dent started. They think that psi number listed is the amount of pressure it takes to dent the wood.

A characteristic of all wood, is it will dent and the finish will scratch.