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Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile



"Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile," in the Hardwood and Laminates Q&A forum, begins: "Hello all, Thank you for reading my post I have 800 sq. ft I would like to install hardwood 3/4 ..."

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Old September 3, 2009, 12:34 PM   #1
Bruce66
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Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Hello all, Thank you for reading my post

I have 800 sq. ft I would like to install hardwood 3/4 in flooring over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile. Plan to leave the tile in place. Most of it seems to be good and secure to floor.

History: House built in 1950, I live on the border of San Francisco,
Floor to be done is over crawl space,/garage. Crawl space is at least 24 in above ground which is dirt at lowest spot and 7 feet at highest. All dirt is covered with 12mil of vapor barrier.

Questions:
1. Is the installation fesible over the exsisting vinyl tile? If so......
2. Nail or staple the floor down, and will the nails or staples go through the 9x9 tiles? I think nails would be better less chance of cracking the tile? (not wanting loose tile under floor)
3. For lost or broken tiles should I use Ardex Feather Finish or Webcrete 95 + latex additive or Mapei Planipatch to fill in the lowsor broken tiles.

All the questions for now, Any help is greatly appreciated
Bruce

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Old September 3, 2009, 12:54 PM   #2
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Forgot, one more question,
Should I use underlayment, of a felt pad would be O.K.?

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Old September 7, 2009, 08:35 AM   #3
bruce66
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Any sugeestions?? Thank you for any help

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Old September 7, 2009, 09:53 AM   #4
Dan Schultz
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


I would not recommend installation over asbostes tile. I can't help but believe every time you drive a fastener you would be creating a hazardous dust.

I would recommend professional removal and disposal of the tiles.

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Old September 7, 2009, 09:56 AM   #5
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


My advice, don't do it. But if ya just insist on tryin it, install 15# felt under the hardwood. This will give the fastener something to bite in order to penetrate the tile better. I would use cleats in this instance, but like I said, I wouldn't do it.......

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Old September 7, 2009, 10:00 AM   #6
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Bruce66 said View Post
Hello all, Thank you for reading my post

I have 800 sq. ft I would like to install hardwood 3/4 in flooring over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile. Plan to leave the tile in place. Most of it seems to be good and secure to floor.

History: House built in 1950, I live on the border of San Francisco,
Floor to be done is over crawl space,/garage. Crawl space is at least 24 in above ground which is dirt at lowest spot and 7 feet at highest. All dirt is covered with 12mil of vapor barrier.

Questions:
1. Is the installation fesible over the exsisting vinyl tile? If so......
2. Nail or staple the floor down, and will the nails or staples go through the 9x9 tiles? I think nails would be better less chance of cracking the tile? (not wanting loose tile under floor)
3. For lost or broken tiles should I use Ardex Feather Finish or Webcrete 95 + latex additive or Mapei Planipatch to fill in the lowsor broken tiles.

All the questions for now, Any help is greatly appreciated
Bruce
***************************
Every nail or staple will create asbestos dust. There may be a way to "encapsulate" the tile with some kind of tacky glue or paint to prevent the asbestos fibers from becoming airborne. It could be as simple as a heavy coat of primer like KillZ.

I'll do a little research and get back to you.

Don't go over the tiles as is.

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Old September 7, 2009, 10:26 AM   #7
Tandy Reeves
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Gentlemen lets think about this for a minute. You have 9" tile adhered to the wood subfloor with adhesive. Next you are going to put 15# asphalt impregnated paper over it. Next you are going to put plywood over that.

Now you are going to drive ring shank nails or screws through all of this into the subfloor. How much more could you encapsulate the tile.

Now if you take it up you are going to mix liquid soap in water and scrape the soap/water tile up. Now in order for asbestos to be breathed into the lungs it must be made micron in size.

In my opinion the safest thing to be done is install the wood floor over the tiles and not give it another thought.

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Old September 7, 2009, 11:18 AM   #8
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Tandy Reeves said View Post
Next you are going to put plywood over that.

.
........I don't think he is gonna do that part Tandy. But i don't think the dust is an issue anyway with felt between the tile and hardwood........

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Old September 7, 2009, 11:45 AM   #9
Steve Forbo
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


I honestly don't think it's a problem at all if you put down either felt paper or another barrier. The amount of asbestos particles that will be produced would not even be enough to kill/hurt a gnat.
I would staple it down to prevent the tile from shattering. If the tiles are installed tight and are not loose, the old adhesive will prevent the tiles from crumbling.
The whole asbestos thing to me is a bit blown out of proportion in my experience. You would have to pulverize the tile into microscopic dust in order for it to become harmful, and that small of an area, you should be fine. Wear a respirator if you are concerned, then do a full cleaning when completed.
I spent Sept 11th covered in it, and volunteered 7 days after it for clean up. Wore a double can respirator and my lungs are fine. And the asbestos and other deadly things in the air are a million times more harmful than VAT dust....
JMHO
Steve

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Old September 7, 2009, 12:32 PM   #10
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


How do you even know it is asbestos? It may be asphalt tile tile given the age of the house. 9 inch asphalt and rubber (looked just like asphalt and had some brighter colors too.) tile were far more common in 1950 than VAT. VAT was the new kid on the block then and not that widely used. I would find out for sure what you are dealing with before making any decisions.

Adhesive and tile tests are cheap to have done if you send the sample in or find a lab in your area. Call an abatement contractor for a referral to a lab.

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Old September 8, 2009, 03:22 PM   #11
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Did a fasten down Bamboo, over VAT last year, using small crown, 18 guage staples.

I made it so the staple didn't drive in, at such a great angle, with a little cardboard off a ceral box.

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Old September 8, 2009, 03:45 PM   #12
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Forbo King said View Post
I honestly don't think it's a problem at all if you put down either felt paper or another barrier. The amount of asbestos particles that will be produced would not even be enough to kill/hurt a gnat.
I would staple it down to prevent the tile from shattering. If the tiles are installed tight and are not loose, the old adhesive will prevent the tiles from crumbling.
**********************
I agree that there's no GENUINE health risk from the situation described by this homeowner. My concern is that the guy feel comfortable that he's not breaking any laws or endangering his family by busting up asbestos flooring. Certainly a layer of felt and possibly plywood would reduce the airborne particles to zero. I just wonder if what we would all agree upon as a perfectly safe method would be approved by OSHA and/or whatever local agencies that would regulate the handling of asbestos.

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Old September 8, 2009, 05:09 PM   #13
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Why don't you call OSHA and find out. I think you are creating fear that is way out of bounds.

Years ago I help draft the abestos removal rules for Oklahoma when the draft was in small commitee stage and it was determined then that the only way you were going to get abestos particulants air borne was by sanding.

Please do not take my word for it call OSHA and describe the situation exactly as it is here.

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Old September 9, 2009, 01:14 PM   #14
bruce66
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


Thank you all for all of your great replies.
Bringing a tile into a lab for test, is a probaly good idea, just to be on the safe side, if the price is right

I agree with Tandy, that if I don't sand the tile I should be on the safe side. Will plan on putting down #15 felt pad first. Now I would think nails would be better than staples, less chance of breaking tiles under pad.

Now for leveling the floor if I need in spots. Should I use Ardex Feather Finish or Webcrete 95 + latex additive or Mapei Planipatch to fill in.

Thanks again

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Old September 9, 2009, 04:08 PM   #15
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Re: Hardwood over 9x9 old abestos vinyl tile


bruce66 said View Post
Thank you all for all of your great replies.
Bringing a tile into a lab for test, is a probaly good idea, just to be on the safe side, if the price is right

I agree with Tandy, that if I don't sand the tile I should be on the safe side. Will plan on putting down #15 felt pad first. Now I would think nails would be better than staples, less chance of breaking tiles under pad.

Now for leveling the floor if I need in spots. Should I use Ardex Feather Finish or Webcrete 95 + latex additive or Mapei Planipatch to fill in.

Thanks again
*************************
Those are all good products and will work fine.

When I first responded that you should lay right over the asbestos tiles "as is" and ought to consider something like paint or primer to encapsulate them I wasn't even thinking about the felt. I agree that's not going to allow anything to go up into the air.

Go for it!

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