help with expansion gap

[jsbrewer]

We think we did not leave enough room around the walls for expansion and now the floor is cupping....can we go back and cut around the walls, or is there something we can do????

[cproader]

jsbrewer said We think we did not leave enough room around the walls for expansion and now the floor is cupping....can we go back and cut around the walls, or is there something we can do????

Ya got somethin else goin on here. No expansion will cause gapping and/or tenting not cupping....and what is the material yer talkin about.....

[Daris Mulkin]

cproader said Ya got somethin else goin on here. No expansion will cause gapping and/or tenting not cupping....and what is the material yer talkin about.....

cp explain to me how no expansion will cause gapping. Thats what the inspector wrote up on my floor that was gapping. No room to expand would cause peaking. Right???

Daris

[cproader]

Daris Mulkin said cp explain to me how no expansion will cause gapping. Thats what the inspector wrote up on my floor that was gapping. No room to expand would cause peaking. Right??? Daris

Daris, if ya got no room at the end of yer length cuts, they will push against the wall and this will cause the rows with expansion to gap at the end joints. Tenting happens from the cross direction......boy there's a good example of bad english......

[TFP Admin]

jsbrewer, I changed the title of your topic. "Help, help, help" is what you yell when you're being chased by a bad guy, drowning or you're trapped in a car wreck. It's not a topic title.

Thanks for posting though. These guys'll help, help, help.

TFP Admin

[Peter Kodner]

I would cut the proper expansion space and hope that the expansion you floor has experienced has not caused any edge crush. It may take a seasonal cycle before you are sure unless you know what crush looks like. Harbor Freight sells a cheap toe kick saw that would probably hold up long enough for you to do this.

BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THIS SAW- IT HAS A TENDENCY TO JUMP OR KICK OUT OF YOUR CUT. THEY CAN BE QUITE DANGEROUS!!!!!

Another option would be an oscillating tool like a Fein. Slower and more expensive, but far safer.

[rusty baker]

I'm not a wood guy, but isn't cupping usually a moisture problem?

[Peter Kodner]

Yes, cupping and gapping are always moisture related, but not necessarily a problem. A bit of cupping should be expected on a wide plank floor, but it should come and go seasonally. The alternative to slight cupping would be readily visible gaps in the dry season.

This is a generalization! Species plays a big role. The type of sawing can also have a bearing, i.e. a quarter sawn floor will have less horizontal shrink/swell (but try and buy a factory finish that is all quarter sawn!).

[cproader]

We are still assumin they are talkin hardwood.....we still don't know, maybe I missed som/ethin........

[Peter Kodner]

cproader said We are still assumin they are talkin hardwood.....we still don't know, maybe I missed som/ethin........

Good point. I guess some of read and comprehend better than others

[jsbrewer]

Thanks for all the helpful stuff, let me clear up some things...we live in Arkansas where you can cut the air with a knife...We bought the pre finished hardwood back in the spring and yes it had been a wet spring...We do have the black plastic under the house and we did use the felt underlay, we did acclimate the wood for about a week and a half in the house with the end of the boxes open...the wood is the 3 and 1/4 wide.. The store guy told us to leave a quarter inch to a half inch space around the walls for expansion..He didn't say anything about moisture or rain or anything about under our house or humidity.... Since our beautiful floor cupped, I have become a flooring expert(lol) I didn't know that you needed to read everything you can get your hands on to put down a floor....Never heard of a moisture meter or anything like that...NO one told us anything about what to do, they just sold us the flooring, white oak, and it came in 2 wks late b/c the mill or something couldn't get any white oak....I wonder if they rushed it and it didn't cure long enough...anyway, the guy from the store came to look at it and he said moisture.... another floor guy said it could be that or not enough space around the walls, either one can cause cupping....I have also found out that since our room was 18 by 22 ft. that the space should have been even more... so we take off the baseboard and sure enough...now the flooring is tight against the wall.....so......any ideas about what we can do????? If I get an independent inspector to come and look at it, it will cost almost $400.00.
Many of our friends have put down hardwood and they say our crawl space is just as dry as theirs or drier....so help, help, help again....thanks

[kylenelson]

You might want to post this in your previously started topic so people can respond more effeciently in helping you

[Steve Olson]

I saw in your last thread regarding this problem, it was suggested that you trim the wood back away from the wall to allow for expansion. That might be a good place to start. You may be able to undercut the drywall to gain some room, that may be easier to accomplish. But, even if you had taken the time to acclimate your wood flooring prior to installing it, some slight cupping would still be evident.

I live in a dry area of the country, so I've never see what you've described, I'm sure its quite discouraging. Do you have a way of measuring the humidity inside the house? Hygrometer are cheap enough, and will give you an idea of the interior humidity.

[Peter Kodner]

So many questions...

Please bear in mind you floor could expand about 3/4 inch (it will be less if properly fastened) for every increase of 1% in moisture content.

Let's start with the crawl space: open or closed? dirt, gravel or? Does your ground cover flash (run continuous) up the foundation? Temperature and relative tumidity in the crawl?

As Steve asked, what is the temp and TH in the living space? what is the actual size of the strips now? A meter is needed to obtain additional information that an inspector would gather.

You may be correct that the wood was not dried corrected and white oak certainly does require more attention while in the kiln. It will be difficult, as a lay person, to make a conclusion with some wood science knowledge. Be warned though, not all inspectors have this knowledge!

FYI a wood inspection usually takes me 2 hours or more on the site (a crawl space adds to this) with another two-four hours to analyze the data and write the report. My base price for a wood inspection is $750.00.

Short of using a pro (and there is a good one in Missouri who frequents here), your best course is to cut the expansion space and hope this alleviates the condition. I'm personally not an advocate of cutting the drywall off the floor and including that is you expansion space calculation, but many here do this successfully.