Installer & Inspector Workshop

[rusty baker]

Tandy, how much is the toll on the Will Rogers these days?

[Danny Ferguson]

Thanks for the quick replies (directory and name tags).

Peter Kodner
Nick Arrera
Chris Mha
CP
Roland Thompson

Name (first/last)
Business Name and Address
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Yrs in Floor Covering Trade
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email
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If your attending the workshop, or not going to attend the workshop and want to be in the directory please email me at donscarpetcenter@hotmail.com

[Tandy Reeves]

Rusty, I think it is $2.90. However, I use the pike pass and just drive through and don't pay any attentin to the cost.

[mcurrin]

I think that we may need to hammer down the purpose of this event. I have a strong opinion on the inspection services, and it is with their business model, and leadership. Part of their business model is to take over the inspection industry so you have to pay them to be in business. They work constantly against reputable services and their practices is what started this whole thing. Now I'm not talking about individual inspectors that have done or may do inspection for these services, but the leadership and the services themselves would be very disruptive. I was under the impression, maybe mistakenly, that reputable inspectors were trying to separate themselves from brokers and show the installers that we are not all bad guy's. Also to help installer understand what goes on in an inspection and way to combat incorrect or misleading reports. If I am wrong please someone tell me.
This is going to be a tough sell anyway with the years of installer experiencing bad inspections and the general feelings about inspectors and all the brokers have to do is step in and make it a farce and we all lose face.

Lee warned us about this. It is just another tactic.

Thanks

Mike

[Tandy Reeves]

Very well stated Mike. This will definately be a big part of the workshop. Hopefully when the workshop is over, the installers and inspectors will have a better understanding and working relationship in their respective fields of endevor. I think we will find at the end of the day that everything that is installation related is not necessarly the installers fault. No one will be condimed for working for the different services, but made aware of how their report is handled and their lack of ownership of that report.

[Peter Kodner]

Mike raises some very good points but being the eternal optimist i am, if any of these services do show up, I think they will expose themselves by the simple act of opening their mouths. I' confident enough true independent inspectors will be their to rebut and disprove any misrepresentations they make. In fact, I believe it will further our message not diminish it.

This obviously will necessitate keeping close tabs on them during meetings to preclude disruptions.

In actuality, it is hard for me to even envision any of them attending if they know the purpose of the gathering- fostering working relationships between installers and inspectors. I don't think they have any interest in the industry beyond strengthening their relationships with and pleasing manufacturers. They continually show an utter lack of concern when it comes to installers, retailers, and inspectors.

[selvalee]

Mike made some very good points,,, I have to agree with it all,
I think, to keep this simple,,, maybe we should say up front, this is for independent installers and inspectors, not services that want to hire them,,,,
maybe,,,, also, if any manufacturers want to send someone "to watch us",,,, we should limit the persons sent to only thier installation techs,,,,
remember, NIFIC was started to support and advance the inspectors, but, they started out taking money from mills to put on the ocnvention, when they were already collecting enough to have a surplus from the members,,,, so, what are we going to do here? this is one of those "its gets sticky" times,,, the mills compromised NICFI,,,,, don't let anyone compromise this effort,,,,
remember, there are more special intersts than just one out there who want to keep installers/inspectors in conflict,,,, Mike is right, we must stick to the orginial puropose and idea,,,
one thing that can happen with such ideas people get "carried away" with the idea, with the support, and suddenly, it expands and expands to more than its stated first purpose,,, what happens? well, people who want to promote their own special interest will want to be part of it, to promote their ideas of "how things should be or be done",,,, and feelings get hurt, people get mad, and then, not everybody is happy and people are bad mouthing it,,,,
we need to remember the ideal purpose, and stick to that completely, and not let it expand into a huge attempt to jam too much in with the limited amount of little time,,, don't try to do too much, keep it simple, keep the progam simple and to the stated purpose,,,,
there is no need for a huge attempt at an educational program,,,, lets deal with what Mike stated,,, and not get diverted in a grand attempt to correct all the industry's evils the first time,,,
1. keep the first stated purpose
2. keep it simple
3. keep it to installers and inspectors,,,
4. we don't need mills or manufacturers there attempting to intimating us or taking down names,,,,some will be scared away by that,,,,
5. be polite but firm,,,, to attend, active installer/inspector who does not hire others to do inspections for them or third parties,,,,, hey, we are not accepting money from the govt,,, we can set up "conditions" to attend,,, hell, they set up "conditions" to attend schools, such at the ACT/SAT tests, and well, we can too,,,

I agree with Mike, stick to the purpose, and keep it to us,,,, keep it simple so the first time, it works in case we want to do this again,
slt

[rgfloor]

Tandy Reeves said Selva is right. There will probably be those that try to discourage this effort, but they must understand this is not us against them. This is trades (installation, inspection, sales, and others) getting together to discuss each of our respective trades to better understand how and why something is done. We will have professionals here that wear more than one hat, such as install and inspect or install and sell. This workshop is not anyone against any group. It should be an outstanding learning experience. We have so much to cover, we will not have time to pick on anyone or any group. Will installers attend, I hope so, will inspectors attend I hope so, will retailers attend, I hope so, will distributors attend, I hope so, will mills attend, I hope so, and will other training groups attend, I hope so. When we all sit down with one common voice and equal status, nothing but good can come from it. Based on the responses, the workshop is a go. The date will be Friday May 9 and Saturday May 10, 2008 in Tulsa, OK. Now lets all start putting a program together. We need group leaders from both the installers and inspectors. We need you to submit questions and comments about topics to be covered. How to involve each other when problems arise. For example when an inspector is commissioned in 99.999999% of the time the installers name or phone number is not available for them to communicate. Was the installer an employee or a sub? How can this be corrected? You get the idea lets expand. There will be no main speakers. Any of the industries well known people are very welcome, but they may only participate as the rest of us do. There will be no rank.

Selva, I think Tandy already made a discision on this subject. I believe it is his choice, up to us to stand behind him!

[selvalee]

Roger, I think maybe we are talking about two different things,
and I am going, and supporting this effort, think hard about that for a minute, if anyone, after years of ranting and raving on this subject in one form or another,,,, why would I not support this and Tandy's great idea that inspectors and installers should get together?

what I am saying is simple,,,, keep it simple, keep it honest, keep it to the first stated purpose, don't try too much the first time, don't get sidetracked,,,, these things can grow, enlarge, beyond the stated first purpose that started it,,,,and lose the entire noble ideal purpose,,,,

I think Mike was reminding us of that, that the idea that started this does not support the idea of brokerage services attending,,,,after reading his post I agree that I was wrong and I think he is right,,,,

the idea was simply to get inspectors and installers together to discuss our differences, to learn to work together,,,, and to do that,,,, while education is important, the education or any educational prgrams should be incorporated into the framework of bringing the two together,,,, dealing with identifiable problems installers have with inspectors, and how we can overcome the differences,,,, and the reverse.... to obtain fair and honest inspections and reports that do not falsely blame the installation family,,, now, was that not the first idea that started all this,,,

lets deal with reality here,,,, the guys attending will not be working for brokerage services,,, and the only purpose of any brokerage services attending would be to find new 'worker bees',,, so, why should they attend?

So, isn't it, kind of, telling me after all the yelling and screaming I have done on this subject for years...... naw, anything more I say will sound egotistical, vain and like I am lecturing/arguing with you when I am not,,,so, leave it here.... you know, lets take me and you for example,,,, I remember the first time you called me,,,, my first gut reaction was, 'damn, another new guy wanting me to help him, and tell him how to get work, to tell him the answers',,,, but, after that, I went against my first reaction and instinct and I called you back, and talking to you,,, I decided to share and learned you have lots to share, helping each other and we became friends,,,
in fact, I think that maybe you, Peter and a few others decided to keep tabs on me, and try to keep me calm!
doesn't work all the time, does it? but, I do listen and value the wise kind words,,,but, back to the topic, if you and I, who have never met in actual person face to face, can work, share, learn to overcome our differences with respect, you being a damnyankee and all, why can't all of us at Tandy great idea?

now, move on, but lets remember to stay on course, and if Mike or I stop to remind everyone, so be it, maybe it might be needed.

[Peter Kodner]

I've been reflecting on this for a while before responding. I believe it is vital for us to be as inclusive as possible and not exclude anyone who expresses a desire to advance installer/inspector relationships.

I have too much respect for ability and intelligence of the members of TFP, and their ability to make educated decisions, for me to agree to precluding attendance by anyone. Every one here has the wisdom and experience to see through to the hidden agendas and phony fronts of the people it has been suggested we preclude. To take the risk of being dismissed by the industry in whole for the sake of keeping people whose opinions and business practice we do not abide by is, IMHO, the exact opposite of the tact we should take.

Again, optimist I am, some may come to jeer at or disrupt our efforts, but may remain to learn a different way of conducting their businesses.

[selvalee]

yes,
but my question to you Peter is "how much have you been exposed to these people"... you have never worked for one of the "lesser" services.... you have never been involved with some of the inspectors associations in the past to present.... you have not been to their meetings or see how they conduct themselves... so, if you do not think some members of these clubs will be there to work against it,, naw, never mind,,, Tandy is quiet capable of handling himself,,, so, never mind.... he packs heat himself like me.

[Tandy Reeves]

Gentlemen, I have thought about this for some time now, and I feel if we exclude anyone we will be defeating one of our main goals and that is "Building Bridges not Walls". Just think how great it would be if we could open doors to dealers, other groups, mills, and distributors not just installers and inspectors. We know we will not solve all of the problems in the flooring industry, but to solve just a few would be a wonderful first step.

[TFP Admin]

Some of you may have noticed the ad placed near the bottom of the forum main page (it rotates with 2 other ads I am running to encourage those vendors to donate prizes for contests/give-aways). It is the same ad that you see in my signature. Currently, the ad on the forum home page links to this thread. As soon as Tandy gives me the particulars, it will link to the course description on his new website (The New FITS Certified | Flooring Inspection Training Services, Inc. ).

T

[Daniel Westcott]

My interested is definately piqued! A symposium geared specifically and soley for the folks that get sore knees on the jobsite! I would be very interested in attending and participating in this meeting. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

Daniel

[mcurrin]

Tandy, you humble me. Yes of course you are correct, this should be open to anyone wanting to improve inspector/installer relations. As optimistic as Peter is, I sometimes fall into pessimism. I am concerned that we may wind up with a lot of inspectors and few installers. To that concern I think it might be appropriate to get a plan together that inspectors attending can go back to their respective areas and continue to "build bridges". I am sure that those that come to this event will teach and learn from the experience. My earlier concerns are not likely to occur and if they do I'm sure it can be handled without angst. I am looking forward to seeing everyone, perhaps meeting some old friends for the first time.

Mike