Installer & Inspector Workshop

[Chris Mha]

Jerry, if your selling your own work that is one thing. If you are working for a retailer is the installer supposed to walk away from an installation because the salesperson sold a product that will not hold up? He is there to install not second guess what the consumer or the saleperson picked. Perhaps a cheap piece of goods was all that the consumer could afford to spend. As an installer that does work for retailers, I do not stick my nose in their end of the business. If I am selling a piece of goods as part of a side job then absolutely I will tell that consumer what to expect but in this case I am also the saleman. This is a good thread but I think we are getting a little off topic.

[Jerry Thomas]

This is a good thread but I think we are getting a little off topic.

OK Chris .... but I hope this matter is discussed at the seminar.

[Tandy Reeves]

This would be a great topic to discuss at the workshop. How is the installer to handle it and how the inspector would inspect it and how it could be justified as an installation related problem. This could be a very lively exchange of information.

[Chris Mha]

I agree Jerry. I think this is the kind of input that Tandy is hoping to have at this workshop. And I think it will be very benificial to both sides. I think it would also be great to see some retailers at this workshop. All to often I hear from installers and retailers that inspectors are only watching out for the manufacturers and that is just not true. It's like they feel that the inspector is the enemy. Again that is not true. If all parties involved could come together with an OPEN MIND on why a job failed it would be great. But I have seen and heard all to often from installers and retailers that I have been doing this for 50 bazillion years and this is the way that I have always done it. These people are not willing to invest in further educating themselves in the flooring field and they will be left behind the ones that choose move forward.

[Nick Arrera]

When i worked for a dealer , i installed what they put on the truck .. i was not part of that conversation .. Selling my own product i go over everything with them from life styles , who is in the house [etc].

[selvalee]

keep this up,
I have a rough draft on this very subject!
slt

[Danny Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Chris Mha Danny, you make some good points however since when is it the installers responsibility to know or not know what will perform or won't perform for the consumer. He is only there to properly install whatever he is given. Also, keep in mind, a good inspector is not going to walk in looking for installation problems. If it is not brought to his attention by the end user it should not be in the report.

Chris, I can see your point of view being taken by an installer who is employed by the retailer, or a subcontractor installer with no pride in what he does for a living. For example, if a retail sales person sold a 3/4" solid wood to be installed around an indoor swimming pool, should the installer not let the customer or sales person know, this is not the best product for the customers situation, and go ahead and install the product? What I'm saying is alot of failed installs and sales could be adverted by everyone working together as a team, and to help each other educate one another, whether your the retailer, sales person, subcontract labor, or even a salary employed installer.

I understand and have the up most respect for what a good inspectors job role is, but I also understand that a good inspector is a minority along with good installers. This is why I think the installer and inspector workshop will be a win win situation for everyone who attends. We all have alot to share, and can be professionals about it.

Sorry for getting off topic. Just throwing some ideas out there.

[Bill Watson]

What an exciting opportunity for all of us.
I'd be willing to bet that we run out of time before we run out of possible topics to discuss!
Oh the possibilities
Right now I'm wondering if/how we might document the event. Is there someone that has the ability to create a video/DVD or something?
It seems as though something we can bring back to our "markets" to share with our cohorts might be good?

[tony lamar]

Sorry, I tuned in late. Sounds like a great idea with a lot of potential. Count me in.

[Chris Mha]

Danny, I am a sub contractor and I have a lot of pride in what I do. If I had a saleperson sell wood flooring around a swimming pool I would without a doubt just walk away from it. I know that is a extreme senario. Let's go a different route. Saleperson sold a cheap bedroom quality carpet in a high traffic area because thats what the consumer could afford or the saleperson just sold the wrong stuff. I am not going to miss out on that days work because that piece of carpet was loaded on my truck. As an installer I go out and install the product properly. If I cannot install it by the book then the retailer or saleperson is notified but I will not open my mouth to a customer as it is not my place on the retailers job.

[Nick Arrera]

Dito , I had lots of people ask me if this is a good cpt ?
What are you going to say ? No you got ripped off and loose the account .. and make the consumer feel bad in the process .. That is one reason i don't work for anyone anymore ..

[Jerry Thomas]

Price points, quality, aesthetic beauty, ect... those are different issues. We should know whether the product we are installing is suitable for the job we are on. Someone's rear end is going to be on the line in that situation.... it ain't going to be mine.

[Peter Kodner]

Bill, I don't think we can get "off topic" on this thread. This is the starting point. I spoke to Chris yesterday (orthe day before...?) and told him I'm a big advocate of the Sh-- Theory. That is where you take a big pile of Sh--, throw it on the wall and see what sticks

I think we need as many ideas as possible at this stage, then as a group we can whittle them down for, hopefully, the first of many of these conferences/symposiums. If we do this well, the industry will not be able to avoid taking notice.

I am back to using my voice recognition software and will be doing some "stream of consciousness" rantings (don't laugh, but I have found talking ideas out loud has lead me to some good places. Conversation- even to one's self, seems to give a perspective quite different from thought alone). After distillation, I'll post any thoughts I think merit consideration. I hope no one will hesitate to shoot down any or all of them! I'd just like to get as many ideas out there as we can for the planning stage.

[Chris Mha]

CRI-105. Installers checklist. First paragraph. Do not try to be a salesperson. Something you say can create a problem. Next paragraph. Avoid answering the customers questions about the quality of the carpet or cushion. Do not volunteer information about any of the products. Instead, suggest they call the store for specific information. Jerry it's not my ass that's going to be on the line either because what I install is going to be properly installed. It cannot be my problem or responsibility that a cheap piece of carpet or vinyl is being installed.

[Jerry Thomas]

I will think of a better terminology than suitable Chris. You keep missing the point I'm trying to make and I take the blame for that.