Installer & Inspector Workshop

[Chris Mha]

No problem. I think this is a great topic though and I look forward to this workshop so these types of debates if you will can take place. In Dannys original post he said that the install moot likely would know if the product would perform. As an installer and as long as I installed a cheap piece of carpet by the book why is it my problem that it matted/crushed in a short time. Now, to put another spin on it. As an inspector, I have no problem asking the consumer why a particular product was selected and I will put the consumers statements in a report. If she says that she selected a low end carpet because of price or thats what the salesman recommended, it goes in the consumers statements paragraph.

[TFP Admin]

Contrary to what Peter said, I think any topic can fall off the track in time. People have been known to take a single idea from a diverse topic and turn it into a focused discussion about something different. I will split a topic that does that because both are excellent discussions in their own right and deserve to have the advantage of being an open topic on their own merit. This topic has managed to stay on-topic - barely. I see another subject that could very well make an excellent discussion on its own and would love to see someone start it in the appropriate forum, but this topic has not been split because of it (yet).

T

[cproader]

Originally Posted by TFP Admin Contrary to what Peter said, I think any topic can fall off the track in time. People have been known to take a single idea from a diverse topic and turn it into a focused discussion about something different. I will split a topic that does that because both are excellent discussions in their own right and deserve to have the advantage of being an open topic on their own merit. This topic has managed to stay on-topic - barely. I see another subject that could very well make an excellent discussion on its own and would love to see someone start it in the appropriate forum, but this topic has not been split because of it (yet). T

Let's see if this works,........HOW ABOUT THEM COWBOYS ????

[Chris Mha]

Back on topic. May is a long way off yet. I suggest that everyone that may have a topic to speak about write them down so they are not forgotten and when this workshop takes place we can debate until out hearts are content.

[Daris Mulkin]

Is someone going to send a invite to Lew Migliore? I would think that would add zest to the group.

Daris

[Tandy Reeves]

I think it would be good to invite Lew. However, in my opinion he would come as everyone else does and be a participant and not a headliner.

[rgfloor]

Tandy, maybe some guidelines would be in order.

1 Is this an ad hoc discussion or are we thinking of headliners? eg. Lew M or Jim Walker, Jon Namba? Countless others. (I say let em come as long as they pay the fee)

2 Are we thinking of retailers? (I say yes as long as the discussion is limited to installation and inspection issues.)

3 Are we asking mill people? (Why not?)

4 Do we have a limit on numbers? (My opinion, yes say the first 25 installers and 25 inspectors) Otherwise it could get unwieldy and wander off topic.

5 Do we have a goal or purpose in mind or is it merely a round table discussion?

6 ?

7 ?

Somebody else add on.

[Tandy Reeves]

Great questions and side statements. As I said to start with this in a installer and inspector workshop. Therefore, I think the installers and inspectors should make these decisions and not me. Come on everyone what is your thoughts and ideas.

[Nick Arrera]

I don't care who comes as long as they stick within the guidelines of the symposium ..

[Jon Scanlan]

A note on the paper work for the installer saying that the customer is aware of the quality of the product, unsuitable floor preparation etc would suffice, otherwise I believe the installer as a professional would have to question the product or method of installation. Our firm writes on the job sheet lay as is customer aware of the situation

[cproader]

I need to have this happen before I go to Japan for the installation demos. They are perfectionists in everything they do, and have no grasp on defective goods and/or installs. It just doesn't make sense to them if it is installed correctly, how could there ever be anything wrong with the installation. In a perfect world, but unfortunately, (which is the part they can't understand) there are going to be problems. Knowing how to identify problems and how to correct them is what they are needing to learn from us. It is a new approach for them in their attempt to be more western in their lifestyle, they are using more and more modern flooring goods. And to my dissmay, I am finding that if it was sent back to the manufacture here in the states as defective goods, well guess where they send it next. That's right. Cause how ya gonna be able to afford to send it back to the #$%^% manufacture from Japan. Bastards. So I gotta teach them how and when to work with what they recieve from the wonderful land of ............

SO this would be a great event for them to somehow witness.

[tony lamar]

Bring your video equipment. Make 'em a movie of it.

[Tandy Reeves]

I agree we should make a viedo of it. (BTW I had eye surgery today so if I goof on my postings I have an excuse. Old age and blind. We want this as professional as we can make it.
Also, about experts. I went back to Discussion In Flooring Poipourrri and looked in "how many types floooring do you install". Now that is a group of experts that are in the trenches every day. What better expert could you ever want to listen to? They see it as it is not what it should be.

[selvalee]

May I second Tandy's opinion, he is doing this for you guys,,,,
I remember another organization that started off trying to do something like this, only to allow others to take over the idea, Lew M. will charge a fee and will promote Lew and his books or classes,,, I see nothing wrong in that, I like the man myself but that is not the purpose of this as the discussion started,,,,, any event can start off with great intentions but degrade into nothingness by trying too hard,,,, you guys are the stars, not the people we see all the time at events,,,, you don't need the presidents of various groups or companies....

Roger, sly idea to have a chance to promote, see you are always thinking and I agree that would be good for us, but, the analyst who decide who they will send the work to will not be there,,,, they do not pay their way to these events,,,, and today, I doubt they will send anybody unless it watch and report back what you guys say and do, or intend to do.... they will watch and take notes,,, so, why invite them?,,,,

in fact, I can bet a grand with assurance, that as soon as this idea hits the entire industry, there will be a lot of groups trying to discourage it and bad mouth everyone,,,, it will happen, but, will you guys stay the course?
I remember when David Hunt was going to have his class, the hate groups came out of everywhere,,, the inspector's clubs will be calling the mills, they will be calling all the associations,,, they will be calling everyone they can to try to stop it....
the attacks will become personal,,,, against our own Tandy,,,,, against JM, against Nick, against all of you,,, can you guys stay the course? they will try to go after people who send you work,,, can you stay the course and stand up to them? It will get rough because all will see you guys gathering together as a threat,,,, and a threat to their easy money for their huge money classes as compared to Tandy's, and their classes do not teach near as much.... can you guys stay the course?
They will view you guys as trying to displace them,,, and, I am serious, it can and may get ugly, so , each of have to be prepared.....do not act like ME! be nice to them, talk sweet, and if they come after you, just ask nice, why are you so scared of installers gathering together to discuss you inspectors? I can tell you why!


because they know they do not have 10% of your knowledge and experience and if you guys ever found out how valuable you can be to the industry, they will be toast,,,,, think about it, think ahead, be ready and, can you guys stay the course? I hope so

[Chris Mha]

One topic of discussion should be education. I mean inspectors who have never installed should take installation courses. Im pretty sure that Selva will agree with this topic and I know Tandy will. Another, how can we get more installers furthering their education.