My trials & tribulations of educating inspectors and installers

[selvalee]

Let me rant and rave, but, it is just known history and facts, you can edit to make it more acceptable if needed, but, this needs to be said because David and I were there and experienced it. So, here goes,,,

Let us have a history lesson.
Several years ago, an association contacted Mr. Hunt inquiring if he would develop and conduct an inspection class for them on woven goods. Mr. Hunt told them he would consider it. After conferring with friends and his lovely wife, and much thought, he said no. He has previously committed himself to do a class for another person. When his class and the date was announced, this group and others started publicly on the Internet forums for inspectors, and some installers site, attacking Mr. Hunt, his credentials, his knowledge, his ability and the need for the class. They said he was not honorable because they claimed he had agreed to do a class for them. Does anyone here think Mr. Hunt is a lair or would not keep his word? Has Mr. Hunt ever asked for one dime here or on other sites helping installers with woven installations? How many of us have called Mr. Hunt directly asking for help? I know I have and he has always helped me, taught me patiently and with respect about the product I was inspecting. He never once asked me for anything other than that I do the best job I can with what he teaches and, most important, to do it honestly.

If that association and the others are for true education, it would not matter for whom Mr. Hunt did the class, they would only care and encourage inspectors to attend it. They did not. Still in the last two years, once Mr. D. called me about classes and woven goods. He still, and others I have talked to from that association, say Mr. Hunt did not teach a good class, and he cheated the inspectors by over charging for the class. They claim he taught the same class for wovens he did for CFI. Well, I was sitting between two damn good installers at that class who told me Mr. Hunt was teaching much more than what he did for CFI. Yet, years later, they were still spreading lies about Mr. Hunt. Why? Because, in this biz it is not about honesty and truth, it is about egos and special self interest. Has anyone ever known Mr. Hunt to lie or not honor a commitment? Has Mr. Hunt ever not helped anyone who asked? But, they do not want anyone but them in charge or considered the "leaders".

Now, my question over and over and over, who the hell would want to be a leader in such a negative biz as they want it to be? Not me! Tandy told me as he has viewed and studied how inspections has changed for the worse the last few years that he wanted to be rid of it, but, thankfully, he has not abandoned us. Thankfully, no matter how much those people have attacked him Mr. Hunt he has not abandoned us. The attacks before the woven class got so mean, nasty, hateful and so bad that Mr. Hunt has yet to do another class. Let me tell you how good that class was. I have attended many inspection and installation classes but that one was one of the first where I saw, and knew that the instructor had not only put together good material, he had practiced the class, he had worked hard to prepare and had spent weeks going over and over the material and the best way to present it. I came away grateful and full of respect for someone who cared enough to do a good job and showed me respect by his great job. Do you guys know the sick empty feeling to pay anywhere between 1200 to 1500 dollars for a class to only be shown power point presentations with no hands on work to know and understand the products? Not so in Mr. Hunts class and yet, to repeat, to this day, they claim either the class was not good or he cheated the guys. Again, if associations are for true education, should it matter who does it for whom? Shouldn't such associations for the inspectors by the inspectors encourage good training and education that will help the entire industry, installers and inspectors alike?

Now, lets keep on with this. Why would anyone attack true good education if not done by them? Well, you see, it is all about control, and egos, and protecting their special self interest. Do you guys know that for years inspectors have called me and e-mailed me asking why I try to post photographs and help installers understand what is happening on failures? I have been told over and over, 'don't teach the installers, they must make mistakes and we must protect our interest in getting more claims',,, think about that, are you mad now? I would be and still am. If education is the goal of some associations, shouldn't the education itself be the most important, and not who does it? I have been contacted over and over by inspectors saying, 'don't help the installers' since that may result in the inspection reports being overturned. They do not want you guys involved. They do not want you to know and understand the processes. Why? Well, do I really have to tell you guys? I talked to the officers of one association and each one made false statements about Mr. Hunt's class. To me, it was one of the best I have ever attended. So, is it about education or is it about them? I think you guys now know.

Right now, on other forums, the non installation inspectors are attacking me trying to discredit me and thus, that article that has gotten so many people upset. Why? To discredit me will discredit the article. They are saying that since I worked 30 hours per week installing on crews and not the lead installer and then worked 2d shift in half way houses for the retarded and later in a prison doing the same, I have no installation experience and I am lying about having that background. Well, to me, working 30 hours a week average in installations and then another 40 on a second shift, sure seems like it to me since I was tired all the time. Jon, Peter and I hope Danny wil write articles they care passionately about.

Do you guys know, one 'trainer' told me he wrote a letter to FCI requesting that such articles that support installers, and in an installers magazine, should not be written! He told me he told them such things should not be said or written. I have heard others are doing the same but they are not installation based trainers or inspectors. Why would they not want you guys to know the truth or how to protest false bad reports? Protection of their special self interest to make money off your backs! That is all. The inspection biz is just a racket for them to make money off you guys. The honest inspectors are attacked each day for refusing to join with the ones who attacked Mr. Hunts great class. They spread lies about them. For example, I have been called a drunk pervert and worse. I did not work in a prison, they tell analyst I was an inmate they falsely state. It never ends with these people and it will not stop now. They will, let me repeat, they will come after this event that I hope comes off with great results. You can count on it that right now, they are reading all these posts, and now e-mails and telephone calls are going back and forth planning on how to prevent this from happening with any success. But, the only way this will work is for you guys, no stars, just you guys working hard, calling each other, e-mailing each other, writing letters to people and not allowing them to divide you by lies and false accusations. For this to succeed, you must also not allow any of them to continue to try to divide you, falsely accuse anyone or damage the true vaule ideals of your goals. It your life, it is your work, it is your means of supporting your family that you love, YOUR FAMILY! They want to make money off of your backs, your honest labor, and, they will do all they can to stop you. Do not doubt it, do not think they will not get mean and try to buy off a few of you. Yes, they will try to buy off some of you with false promises. Do not let it happen! Protect your FAMILY and INSTALLATION FAMILY! REMEMBER, THEY DO NOT CARE IF YOU HAVE A HOME, YOUR CHILDREN EDUCATED OR CLOTHS AND FOOD, ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THEMSELVES AND THEIR SPECIAL MONEY INTEREST OFF YOUR BACKS!

[Chris Mha]

I'm tired. I need a nap now. I haven't read that much in a long time. Good work Lee.

[Al Gladden]

that is alot to read,,there are good people out there...roland thompson is one who turned me on to cfi, and he has helped me tremendously over the years...so not all is bad with cfi, there are good ones...roland, daris, myself,danny sherman, and a host of others.. oh yeah, fellow georgia cfi guy p.j arthur has a great woven school, Natural Fiber Installation Certification - Woodstock, GA- Industry News. i would love to attend this seminar, while i am not a inspector, i am a salesman/installer who believes in quality installations every time.

[Tandy Reeves]

Come on Al you fit just right for the workshop. If you or anyone else is in the flooring industry you are very welcome to participate.

[selvalee]

gald I put you to sleep Chris, you are an old man needing your rest I hear, Al, I am not putting down CFI,
i hope a lot of CFI guys, many, lots, and union guys, will hear about the convention and attend.
slt

[Peter Kodner]

It occurs to me my company in Chicago was a charter member of PFCIA. I'll contact them and see if someone from there would attend.

[Chris Mha]

Lee I didn't mean that your post was boring just very long. I was just hasseling you.

[selvalee]

that is all I was doing back at you in fun,
and any time you need help sleeping, old men like you have those nights I hear,, give me a call, we will discuss inane topics,

[Daris Mulkin]

Lee, I don't know who you were sitting by in the seminar that the guys said Mr. hunts class was a lot more into it than the CFI class was but. I'll say this and it is not against David or CFI. The classes that were put on at CFI were 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours maximum. Mr. David Hunt put on one of the finest classes that could be put on in that time span I have ever seen. It was standing room only to get in. I never knew a nail could teach you so much, or 2 pieces of card board could teach you to seam seal and how to sew.
Whatever reasons David had a falling out with CFI is his business and no one elses for that matter and has nothing to do with me or the relationship I have with him.

Daris

[selvalee]

Daris,
no offense meant toward you or CFI,,,, it was not CFI guys who were saying that but officers and members of an inspection associaiton.
Daris, they were trying to keep people from going to the class, and afterwards, they wanted to harm David's rep,,,, so, one thing they were saying is that a five 1/2 day course David taught us was the same he did for CFI for a few hours,,,,so, David had much more time and taught us a lot. The CFI installers sitting by me are well known great techs, and I was lucky to be sitting beside them, they taught me a lot along with David,,,,
I am not going to lie, I hunt out smart guys to hang around,,, and I politely ask them to teach me,,,, it is a reflection upon a person's character how willing they are to share knowledge, hard earn or hard learned, which is the best kind of knowledge,
but, I do not know of one installer there who said one bad thing,,, what I was saying and I hope not misunderstood is the people from that association were going after David for refusing to do the class for them,,,, and again, if their goal is the betterment of the industry by education, it should not matter who an instructor does the class for, the idea, the ideal, is education and the betterment of the entire industry,,,,
with that in mind, if I mislead or was not clear about who was degrading Mr. Hunt, I hope I have cleared it up,,,,
I respect David too much to get into his personal biz about some matters,,,, and I hope, since I have always valued your responses to my photographs and taught me a lot over the years, that I cleared up any misunderstandings from my rant and rave,,,, and I so do enjoy my rant and raves,,,, esp.'ly when I forget my meds!

[Tandy Reeves]

yes my friend I just wish you would not hold back so much. Have you ever wondered how many years of experience we have posting on this board?

[Roland Thompson]

First I want to say I call David my friend and have many times spent hours talking to him and yes he has helped me in many ways. David knows I am in CFI and I hope he knows I belive in teaching anyone that will listen. If you are talking about the class David and his better half gave in PA. a few years back, I was there and I have been to other woven class after that and they could not hold a candle to his class.
Let me add thu I have never been told to my face by higher ups in CFI anything bad of David. I am like Daris ,why David left I do not know and it is his bussniess.
I am looking forward to work with other people to move this industry forwad. I am planning on being there.

Roland

[selvalee]

As I said Roland, I guess I was not too clear,,
I was not talking about CFI, that is David's biz,,,, I was talking about another association and its people,
and, may I say, I hope you and Daris help Tandy, he can not do this alone, and two men with your knowledge, experience and wisdom can only be good for the event. I hope you two will not just be there, but help Mr. Tandy with support, advice and maybe a little work promoting; and last, some direct imput to help us dumb inspectors do a better job for installers,,,,, I have said over and over, for two long, there has been a separation between us that should not be there,,,,I learn and learn, like at David's class sitting between two fine smart installers who helped this dumb ole fat man,,,,
slt