The high price of published standards

Peter Kodner · January 3, 2010, 09:16 AM

Is it only me struck by the irony that that installation is blamed for the vast majority of the problems (or all of them is you listen to some manufacturers!) and they make the cost of the standards ridiculously expensive? Is there not a vested interest for the industry to have the standards in the hands of the people one of the indispensable cogs of the machinery?

The CRI standards, as poor as they may be, are at least readily available. How will charging any amount for these standards elevate the level of compliance? Are they also not the responsibility of and in the best interest of manufacturers' to get them in the hands of as many people as possible?

Personally and from a business standpoint, I will buy the ANSI standards when they come out, but where is the equity in my role as an inspector holding people accountable to what will in all likelihood be a very narrowly distributed publication?

Another brilliant idea for the floor covering industry...

Tandy Reeves · January 3, 2010, 09:37 AM

Well put Peter. I have looked at some of the ANSI Standards prices for the complete standard and WOW are they expensive. For example the one for the pumps (complete standard) costs $2,150.00. Now how many installers, inspectors or dealers can afford to purchase one if it is just half that much?

ANSI does not give their stuff away.

Nick Arrera · January 3, 2010, 11:07 AM

I wouldn't buy it if i could afford it .
When you rob me i want to see the Gun.

that stuff should be free .

Tandy Reeves · January 4, 2010, 10:27 AM

QUESTION: If ANSI and IICRC establish standards for the installation of commercial and residential carpet and the price for the publication is too expensive for installers is it a active live and judging document?

Who is going to be the right and wrong judge?

Inspector - - Can't afford to buy one.

Dealer - - - vested interest

Mill Rep. - - - vested interest

Manufacturer - - - vested interest

Consumer - - - vested interest

Does just writing a document make it the rule?

Does the new standard make installing easier or harder?

cproader · January 4, 2010, 11:36 AM

this doesn't even make any sense....If these are standards, then why do ya have to pay fer them. In fact I think we should ferget their standards and write our own.....

rusty baker · January 4, 2010, 11:47 AM

#1 carpet standard= Fuzzy side up!

Barry Carlton · January 4, 2010, 11:54 AM

If they are standards that affect the warranties, wouldn't it make sense to include them with every piece of goods sent out? Also, of the standards are tied to warranties couldn't it be argued legally that if they are not readily and reasonably available they are not enforceable?

With the law they say ignorance is no excuse....but the statutes/laws are readily available and free. If they were not the laws would not be enforceable. shouldn't the same apply to other standards?

Nick Arrera · January 4, 2010, 12:35 PM

Just somebody else trying to get into your knickers for your milk money.

rusty baker · January 4, 2010, 01:47 PM

I still do not think that carpet cleaners should have any part in writing INSTALLATION standards. INSTALLATION standards should be written by INSTALLERS.

Dobby Tappet · January 4, 2010, 03:41 PM

Does just writing a document make it the rule?

No, but writing it and making it available to a public review, followed by majority approval and acceptance by the industry, in the same manner or protocol as similar standards, will.

Listen folks, it's real and it's coming and those who oppose it after the fact will be viewed by the courts in much the same manner as those who claim taxes are unconstitutional. The fact that somebody can't afford to pay for the documents is no more an excuse than the installer who can't afford a power stretcher or the retailer who can't afford to pay a livable wage.

Personally I'm more concerned about how we are all going to pay for the mandatory health insurance we will be required 'by law' to carry and maintain.

cough-cough

Dobby

kylenelson · January 4, 2010, 05:46 PM

Dobby Tappet said

Personally I'm more concerned about how we are all going to pay for the mandatory health insurance we will be required 'by law' to carry and maintain. cough-cough

Dobby

Well said Dobby. I'm pretty sure these standards will not affect any method of installation that I'm already doing...not really too worried about not being able to read a manual about something I already know how to do properly.

mike sliwinski · January 4, 2010, 07:58 PM

Tandy Reeves said

Well put Peter. I have looked at some of the ANSI Standards prices for the complete standard and WOW are they expensive. For example the one for the pumps (complete standard) costs $2,150.00. Now how many installers, inspectors or dealers can afford to purchase one if it is just half that much?

ANSI does not give their stuff away.

Hey Tandy, could you second grader proof the statement " For example the one for the PUMPS, costs 2,150.00" ---- Thanks Mike

Peter Kodner · January 4, 2010, 10:25 PM

It should be pointed out IICRC is not authoring the document, but is basically doing the editing and proofing for publication. This said, I do believe they have a representative on the committee. They will have input but not be in control.

Tandy Reeves · January 5, 2010, 06:26 AM

Mike, I do not understand what you are asking. On the dollar amount I googled ANSI, and it came up on that page. I did not dig any deeper. I went back and looked again and did not find the pump price again. If I mis-spoke please feel free to correct me. I will continue to look for where I got the information. Thanks

Tandy Reeves · January 5, 2010, 06:52 AM

I did find a price list for ASTM. The title is Annual Book of ASTM Standards try www.techstreet.com/astm-Sections.tmp (maybe it will work) I still did not find the pump one. The Standard is expensive, and the sub-sections are less expensive. My original point was the publications are not cheep my only point.