What would you change about the carpet installation standards?

[Tandy Reeves]

Over the years we have talked a great deal about CRI-104, 105, and now new ANSI rules for the installation of carpet.

Now lets approach this from a different angle. If your voice had absolute power, what one thing (not including wages) would you change, delete, or add to the new standards for the installation of carpet?

[Barry Carlton]

Required certification for warranties

[Taurus Flooring]

The whole concept of `standards`is ludicrous, if it`s not backed by a certification program. The industry is in dire need of a mandatory apprenticeship program, so that everyone has the opportunity to learn to install the correct way and not just be motivated by cost overides. Failing to act on this now, can only encourage more hacks to enter the trade and ignore any so called standard.

[rusty baker]

Certifications need to be at reasonable prices, not at outrageous rates like the ones from the current money-gouging organizations. But personally, I would just eliminate the standards since they aren't relevant now, never have been and probably never will be relevant.

[Barry Carlton]

Certs do not have to be expensive. I know what I will be referencing is not cpt. but with Forbo the cost is about $350 for the class. This includes accomodations, meals, and the course. It is a pass/fail course. The average pass rate is 1/3 of the attendees. If you do not pass, you cannot attend for a year. But if you attend again within the second year it is all free (you only have to get there). Maybe it has changed in the last year with the economy...but that it how it has been for many years.

They do expect the attendees to have the assumed experience to pass prior to attending. The class is not designed to 'teach' installation methods in general.

I think this is a good model for cert. courses in most of the related trades.

Just my thoughts.

[strip buster]

Taurus Flooring said The whole concept of `standards`is ludicrous, if it`s not backed by a certification program. The industry is in dire need of a mandatory apprenticeship program, so that everyone has the opportunity to learn to install the correct way and not just be motivated by cost overides. Failing to act on this now, can only encourage more hacks to enter the trade and ignore any so called standard.

mandatory apprenticeship is the way to go.there are plenty of tax breaks for those who have them and 'over here' large commercial builders are demanding each company to work on site have at least one apprentice.....downside of that is the flooded market of installers and result will be rates not going up very often.

[Jackreed]

Tandy I would change or leave out the 1 to 1 1/2% for power stretching. I have found very few carpets you can get this stretch. Most if you get it one direction you can't get it the other way. I havn't found any carpeting where the maufatures specs isn't the same as the CRI standards.

[kylenelson]

Jackreed said Tandy I would change or leave out the 1 to 1 1/2% for power stretching. I have found very few carpets you can get this stretch. Most if you get it one direction you can't get it the other way. I havn't found any carpeting where the maufatures specs isn't the same as the CRI standards.

Yeah, this.


Also, I would rather see tighter standards for manufacturing patterned carpet (especially with a SMALL pattern). In the end, the better the product is to work with the better it's going to look.

[kwfloors]

Then salesmen and women should not sell it if it isn't a good product but that will never happen as there will always be someone who needs a job.
I was going to say the stretching requirement also.

[Nick Arrera]

barrycarlton said Certs do not have to be expensive. I know what I will be referencing is not cpt. but with Forbo the cost is about $350 for the class. This includes accomodations, meals, and the course. It is a pass/fail course. The average pass rate is 1/3 of the attendees. If you do not pass, you cannot attend for a year. But if you attend again within the second year it is all free (you only have to get there). Maybe it has changed in the last year with the economy...but that it how it has been for many years. They do expect the attendees to have the assumed experience to pass prior to attending. The class is not designed to 'teach' installation methods in general. I think this is a good model for cert. courses in most of the related trades. Just my thoughts.

I was going to go to the one in Mass last year Barry .
I think it was $400.00 and when you completed the course they gave you your money back .

[Barry Carlton]

Nick, I think you are thinking of Nora.

[Dobby Tappet]

Interesting question and I have been pondering it since the initial post.

What would I change...?

I believe standards need to be product specific. The idea that a single standard can be evenly and effectively applied to all products is ridiculous. There is no way a 1/10 gauge tufted olefin broadloom with an ActionBac is going to accommodate and/or benefit from the same installation protocol as 80 ounce tufted nylon patterned carpet with a soft back and vice versa.

This is especially true in the area of woven carpet, not to mention the inclusion of natural fibers and non-latex based bonding methods in all soft surface categories.

It is my opinion that the demise of installation standards has been the adaptation of the same flawed logic used by a disproportionate number of retailers in their 'single price for all labor' policies. We do not live in a one size fits all world and for any standard to become an effective working tool, it must be as diverse as the product category it is seeking to serve.

Therefore, if I had the power to make a change it would be for either a comprehensive set of standards or a sparse, single standard that would define a satisfactory installation leaving the choice of methods employed to achieve the standard of satisfaction completely up to the installer.

For example: Patterns must be straight, matched, centered and balanced in the space. Patterns are to be kept in register when traveling through multiple areas. No goop about bow, skew, tolerances, stretching or anything. The standard says, when finished, the material must be straight, centered and balanced. How the installer arrives at this result is their business. If the installer can not achieve success as defined by the standard with the goods received, that's between the installer, retailer and manufacture. But in the end, if it's not as defined, the job is improper and unacceptable and, if refused by the end user, must be replaced.

How's that? Agree? Disagree? WHY?

Respectfully,

Dobby

[rusty baker]

That is the most intelligent thing I have ever seen written about the standards.

[BrianM]

Taurus Flooring said The whole concept of `standards`is ludicrous, if it`s not backed by a certification program. The industry is in dire need of a mandatory apprenticeship program, so that everyone has the opportunity to learn to install the correct way and not just be motivated by cost overides. Failing to act on this now, can only encourage more hacks to enter the trade and ignore any so called standard.

****************************** **
It's kind of ironic for me as a union worker to see this. We've always had those programs and standards, for well over a hundred years----yet some guys still suck.

[Nick Arrera]

barrycarlton said Nick, I think you are thinking of Nora.

I wasn't thinking . thats it Barry . What is the difference in them ?

I was surprised to see how flexible that stuff was in the video . they come a long .