CRI-104, 105 and the Coming S-600 Standards for Installation

[the Rug Chick]

CRI and WFCA are funding the IICRC's work on an installation standard (I believe the cost is $500K - but don't quote me on that). That led me to ask, what is wrong with the current installation standards by CFI - are they that bad that a cleaning organization needs to handle them? (I'm truly curious about that, since I know NOTHING about installation, except that I always hear that most warranty claims are installation related... and that many installers are not actually certified - but PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on that, because I may be being fed propaganda.)

I'm just wanting to learn more. And if any of you have any questions about rugs, maybe I can return the favor of you educating me through me doing the same back.

Lisa

[Barry Carlton]

Welcome RC.

We try to maintain a balanced and polite board. But there are some here who may view you as a target. Some do not like the IICRC. THIER VIEWS ARE NOT THE VIEWS OF THIS BOARD OR MOST HERE!!! We will do our best to moderate accordingly.

We need all segments of the industry here and welcome you with your knowledge and heritage in the industry.

Again

[Isabella Flooring]

barrycarlton said Welcome RC. We try to maintain a balanced and polite board. But there are some here who may view you as a target. Some do not like the IICRC. THIER VIEWS ARE NOT THE VIEWS OF THIS BOARD OR MOST HERE!!! We will do our best to moderate accordingly. We need all segments of the industry here and welcome you with your knowledge and heritage in the industry. Again

So Barry,

If I see the large font about the IICRC, Are you say that most here are not in agreeance of the S-600 writting of the ansi spec. for Carpet Installation, or the re-write of the R-800 Carpet Inspectors Reference Guide thats gonna replace the IICRC Reference Guide For Inspection of Textile Floorcoverings that was written in 1992 and hasnt changed since then?????

[Jim McClain]

I'm gonna make a small correction. The installation standards - the old ones and the new ones in development - are CRI, not CFI. Certified Floorcovering Installers is a training and certifying organization, true enough, but the standards you refer to are CRI-104 and CRI-105. These will be the standards changed to accommodate the ANSI standards and will supersede the old 104 & 105 standards.

Jim

[Barry Carlton]

Isabella Flooring said So Barry, If I see the large font about the IICRC, Are you say that most here are not in agreeance of the S-600 writting of the ansi spec. for Carpet Installation, or the re-write of the R-800 Carpet Inspectors Reference Guide thats gonna replace the IICRC Reference Guide For Inspection of Textile Floorcoverings that was written in 1992 and hasnt changed since then?????

Nope, just some have been very vocal about cleaners involvement in installation. That's all.

[Jim McClain]

Oh, PS: We have lots of members here certified by IICRC, so don't let the opinions of some make you feel that organization isn't just as welcome here as ANYONE else. 'Sides, I invited you because you have to important issues to talk about that transcend IICRC.

As some of you others may have noticed, Lisa has not claimed to be knowledgeable about the installation side of this industry. Please don't lump her into a category just because she's a member or officer in IICRC.

[Isabella Flooring]

the Rug Chick said CRI and WFCA are funding the IICRC's work on an installation standard (I believe the cost is $500K - but don't quote me on that). That led me to ask, what is wrong with the current installation standards by CFI - are they that bad that a cleaning organization needs to handle them? (I'm truly curious about that, since I know NOTHING about installation, except that I always hear that most warranty claims are installation related... and that many installers are not actually certified - but PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on that, because I may be being fed propaganda.) I'm just wanting to learn more. And if any of you have any questions about rugs, maybe I can return the favor of you educating me through me doing the same back. Lisa

I beleive you are missing out some other funders of the IICRC Installation Standards which is called S-600.

You have as you stated CFI and WFCA, also you have, Install, Mohawk Industries, Shaw Industries and alot of others, They are not bad at all(IICRC).

97% of you Inspectors here have been schooled by IICRC books. CFI is strong in standards and a correct way on Min. Standards and 1 to be tested on that standard in stead of a text book reading(book Jockey) way. If that make any sense.

[the Rug Chick]

Just want to clarify I've been on the IICRC board in the past. I resigned. Some issues there I just could not be a part of anymore - no more details needed. And if you do want the details, you can go to the cleaners forums linked through the Real Dirt Blog and find them.

I tend to be one who says things as I see them, and it's strange that many don't do that. They say things in the hallways one way, and in the board room another.

I'm just too lazy to remember what "spin" is supposed to happen, so I keep it easy by just sticking to the truth. (Or what I perceive to be the truth... because we all have our biases...)

So, that said, what are the issues with IICRC that you have here? Simply that it's "cleaners" getting into your world? (Which makes sense. Kind of why I got upset on the SOA program with MILLS coming into our world to tell us what cleaning is best when they didn't even involve any cleaners in the test design. And Rug Doctor ranks at the TOP... while Consumer Reports comes out with testing that says they are far from top... so who to believe, CRI or CR?)

I think the issues we share may be that you spend a career in one field, striving to be your best, and do your best, and someone who has not been in YOUR shoes, steps in to tell you how to do it right.

It's infuriating, right?

IICRC - do you expect them to do a better job than the CRI versions out? What are any concerns you have on that?

I think this will be fun - so thank you for playing along.

Lisa

[rgfloor]

the Rug Chick said IICRC - do you expect them to do a better job than the CRI versions out?

Yes, I do!! Simply because they have a broad based input. I would hope that they will not try to "spin" anything to one side or the other.

the Rug Chick said What are any concerns you have on that?

Getting it right and putting some teeth into the standards so that they can really be enforced.

the Rug Chick said I think this will be fun - so thank you for playing along.

I don't consider this discussion to be "playing" as it has far to significant an impact on my chosen career.

By the way, over a year ago I heard that they were still actively seeking volunteers for the committee, so I e-mailed Mr. Mullins with an offer of help. He stated he would forward it to the right place. Never heard a word in return, so I guess they did not want my assistance!!

[rusty baker]

Glad my time in this business is almost done. I expect the new standards to be as bad as the old ones. I hope I am wrong.

[the Rug Chick]

We all spend most of our lives "working"... so why not have fun at it? I try to "play" every day. You can still be professional and enjoy the process.

Thank you all for the input so far,
Lisa

[Nick Arrera]

Welcome to TFP Lisa .