Formica on a countertop

[Lo Down]

OK, not a flooring question........ so sue me. Wasn't sure where to post this one....... but it is laminate.

Formica counter tops used to be more common in the flooring profession............ grandpa did them prior to 1977.
A friend has removed his old Formica using a secret method I was shown by another installer friend. I swore under the threat of death not to reveal it.
(using a machete )

Machete wasn't the threat, it's the tool my friend used to remove the old Formica. Marv passed on a few years ago............. I know he wouldn't mind now.

Anyhow, there are a few places that the plywood got gouged or it pulled off a small chip of the top layer of the plywood............. I mean small....... 1 1/2 inch by 2 inches by the thickness of one ply is probably the worst damaged place. Most of it is looking very smooth.

Is Webcrete 98 as good as anything to fill the plywood voids and gouges with with?

Should he use some lacquer thinner and a scraper to remove the old adhesive?

[Barry Carlton]

I use an equivalent to Webcrete for minor repairs under laminate.
What type of adhesive is he planning on using? Compatibility of adhesives is just as important in this case as on floors.

[Chris Flynn]

Lo Down said OK, not a flooring question........ so sue me. Wasn't sure where to post this one....... but it is laminate. Formica counter tops used to be more common in the flooring profession............ grandpa did them prior to 1977. A friend has removed his old Formica using a secret method I was shown by another installer friend. I swore under the threat of death not to reveal it. (using a machete ) Machete wasn't the threat, it's the tool my friend used to remove the old Formica. Marv passed on a few years ago............. I know he wouldn't mind now. Anyhow, there are a few places that the plywood got gouged or it pulled off a small chip of the top layer of the plywood............. I mean small....... 1 1/2 inch by 2 inches by the thickness of one ply is probably the worst damaged place. Most of it is looking very smooth. Is Webcrete 98 as good as anything to fill the plywood voids and gouges with with? Should he use some lacquer thinner and a scraper to remove the old adhesive?

Hey Lo. on the Laminate work that I have done, I have use rocklers water putty for filling voids.... and I just sanded old adhesive to smooth with a 40 grit paper.... I am not sure that I would use any thinner because it might cause a problem when glueing again... I don't do many counter tops much anymore, to many big time companies into counter tops, I only did a couple last year..... but do some case work.. and laminate cabinet work.... and if you get a chance look at wilson art laminate , some of the new patterns are pretty sharp

Wilsonart.com: Welcome!

here is the formica page... there stuff is pretty cool also

Home

a little tip if you don't mind... after you make contact with your two surfaces, get yourself a hair blow dryer and use it on the laminate and heat it up and then roll with gundlach laminate roller... especially on the edges... also I always use solvent based adhesive... I have not had much luck with the water base contact... one other tip... before you run your router with the trimming bit... take some bar soap or wax and smear where your bearing or edge bit is going to make contact.... they actually make a wax pencil that you can use for laminate bits... and CMT makes the best Lamint bit on the market... it actually has a 7 dregee angle so you don't have to file as much on the corners... and I am sure that you know about the dowel trick that is as old as the laminate business itself...
and I love doing Laminate work... I think it is the glue
that also reminded me If you can find some Contact glue roller covers you will be pleasantly surprised with the way that they roll the glue on the surfaces... they look like they are covered with a textured short looped carpet... they are awesome for applying glue .. and you don't get any glue humps... in your surfaces...
sorry to run on ... I do like laminate... don't get me started about veneering... HA!

[Barry Carlton]

Chris Flynn said Hey Lo. on the Laminate work that I have done, I have use rocklers water putty for filling voids.... and I just sanded old adhesive to smooth with a 40 grit paper.... I am not sure that I would use any thinner because it might cause a problem when glueing again... I don't do many counter tops much anymore, to many big time companies into counter tops, I only did a couple last year..... but do some case work.. and laminate cabinet work.... and if you get a chance look at wilson art laminate , some of the new patterns are pretty sharp Wilsonart.com: Welcome! here is the formica page... there stuff is pretty cool also Home a little tip if you don't mind... after you make contact with your two surfaces, get yourself a hair blow dryer and use it on the laminate and heat it up and then roll with gundlach laminate roller... especially on the edges... also I always use solvent based adhesive... I have not had much luck with the water base contact... one other tip... before you run your router with the trimming bit... take some bar soap or wax and smear where your bearing or edge bit is going to make contact.... they actually make a wax pencil that you can use for laminate bits... and CMT makes the best Lamint bit on the market... it actually has a 7 dregee angle so you don't have to file as much on the corners... and I am sure that you know about the dowel trick that is as old as the laminate business itself... and I love doing Laminate work... I think it is the glue that also reminded me If you can find some Contact glue roller covers you will be pleasantly surprised with the way that they roll the glue on the surfaces... they look like they are covered with a textured short looped carpet... they are awesome for applying glue .. and you don't get any glue humps... in your surfaces... sorry to run on ... I do like laminate... don't get me started about veneering... HA!

I actually like the water based contact. I do put 2 coats on though. (and don't let it freeze!!!!)
I also have a bit with an oversized bearing (about 1/16 inch) that I 'pre-trim' with, then go back and trim with the flush bit.
Extension cords work well, as does scrap laminate, anything to keep it from making contact. The scrap laminate works great on complicated pieces as it is closer to the actual install position.
The hair dryer/heat gun also is a good tip.
I did not know about the CMT bit......have to try it.

[Chris Flynn]

what water base glue are you using barry?

[Barry Carlton]

Chris Flynn said what water base glue are you using barry?

Wilsonart's

[Barry Carlton]

Chris Flynn said Hey Lo. on the Laminate work that I have done, I have use rocklers water putty for filling voids.... and I just sanded old adhesive to smooth with a 40 grit paper.... I am not sure that I would use any thinner because it might cause a problem when glueing again... I don't do many counter tops much anymore, to many big time companies into counter tops, I only did a couple last year..... but do some case work.. and laminate cabinet work.... and if you get a chance look at wilson art laminate , some of the new patterns are pretty sharp Wilsonart.com: Welcome! here is the formica page... there stuff is pretty cool also Home a little tip if you don't mind... after you make contact with your two surfaces, get yourself a hair blow dryer and use it on the laminate and heat it up and then roll with gundlach laminate roller... especially on the edges... also I always use solvent based adhesive... I have not had much luck with the water base contact... one other tip... before you run your router with the trimming bit... take some bar soap or wax and smear where your bearing or edge bit is going to make contact.... they actually make a wax pencil that you can use for laminate bits... and CMT makes the best Lamint bit on the market... it actually has a 7 dregee angle so you don't have to file as much on the corners... and I am sure that you know about the dowel trick that is as old as the laminate business itself... and I love doing Laminate work... I think it is the glue that also reminded me If you can find some Contact glue roller covers you will be pleasantly surprised with the way that they roll the glue on the surfaces... they look like they are covered with a textured short looped carpet... they are awesome for applying glue .. and you don't get any glue humps... in your surfaces... sorry to run on ... I do like laminate... don't get me started about veneering... HA!

Do you have a link to the CMT bit you like?

[Chris Flynn]

here is the page for the bits.. I have been hearing about the square bearing bits but not tried them yet

Router bits-Trimmer bits-CMT tools

[TFP Admin]

Lo Down said OK, not a flooring question........ so sue me. Wasn't sure where to post this one....... but it is laminate.

Seems like it is more a "Other Home Decorating & Remodeling Project" so I moved it there.

Jim

[Daris Mulkin]

For keeping the laminate from touching I used the venetian blind [mini blind] blades. They are easy to get a hold of. We used to put vaseline on where the bearing rides to keep from burning, that was before the bearing bit came out.
My dealing with Wilsonart wasn't very good. It was thinner than Formica brand and chipped easily. But that was 20 years ago when I did my last counter top.
I always hated getting that last inch or so in the corners, any tricks? I used a hack saw blade for the rough cut and then it was file it.

Daris

[Barry Carlton]

Daris Mulkin said For keeping the laminate from touching I used the venetian blind [mini blind] blades. They are easy to get a hold of. We used to put vaseline on where the bearing rides to keep from burning, that was before the bearing bit came out. My dealing with Wilsonart wasn't very good. It was thinner than Formica brand and chipped easily. But that was 20 years ago when I did my last counter top. I always hated getting that last inch or so in the corners, any tricks? I used a hack saw blade for the rough cut and then it was file it. Daris

You think WA was bad, try NevMar, that stuff is junk.

I was taught to hold a small square tight on the top edge of the last inch or so and literally just break it off. It nearly always breaks flush with a little minor filing to smooth it.

[Bill Watson]

barrycarlton said You think WA was bad, try NevMar, that stuff is junk. I was taught to hold a small square tight on the top edge of the last inch or so and literally just break it off. It nearly always breaks flush with a little minor filing to smooth it.

Another way I was taught, is to use a pair of side cutters or dikes to nip off the last inch, and then file flush/smooth.
I never liked NevaMar either.

[Lo Down]

barrycarlton said I use an equivalent to Webcrete for minor repairs under laminate. What type of adhesive is he planning on using? Compatibility of adhesives is just as important in this case as on floors.

Solvent based. I wasn't sure if Vitex or a similar product would work as well.

Chris Flynn said Hey Lo. on the Laminate work that I have done, I have use rocklers water putty for filling voids.... and I just sanded old adhesive to smooth with a 40 grit paper.... I am not sure that I would use any thinner because it might cause a problem when glueing again... I don't do many counter tops much anymore, to many big time companies into counter tops, I only did a couple last year..... but do some case work.. and laminate cabinet work.... and if you get a chance look at wilson art laminate , some of the new patterns are pretty sharp Wilsonart.com: Welcome! here is the formica page... there stuff is pretty cool also Home a little tip if you don't mind... after you make contact with your two surfaces, get yourself a hair blow dryer and use it on the laminate and heat it up and then roll with gundlach laminate roller... especially on the edges... also I always use solvent based adhesive... I have not had much luck with the water base contact... one other tip... before you run your router with the trimming bit... take some bar soap or wax and smear where your bearing or edge bit is going to make contact.... they actually make a wax pencil that you can use for laminate bits... and CMT makes the best Lamint bit on the market... it actually has a 7 dregee angle so you don't have to file as much on the corners... and I am sure that you know about the dowel trick that is as old as the laminate business itself... and I love doing Laminate work... I think it is the glue that also reminded me If you can find some Contact glue roller covers you will be pleasantly surprised with the way that they roll the glue on the surfaces... they look like they are covered with a textured short looped carpet... they are awesome for applying glue .. and you don't get any glue humps... in your surfaces... sorry to run on ... I do like laminate... don't get me started about veneering... HA!

I mentioned thinner because I wasn't sure if sand paper would gum up.
My old friend always used a trowel for applying the adhesive. He also had a 36" long cardboard tube with a couple of dozen 3/16" steel rods in it. He used those instead of dowels.

Daris Mulkin said For keeping the laminate from touching I used the venetian blind [mini blind] blades. They are easy to get a hold of. We used to put vaseline on where the bearing rides to keep from burning, that was before the bearing bit came out. My dealing with Wilsonart wasn't very good. It was thinner than Formica brand and chipped easily. But that was 20 years ago when I did my last counter top. I always hated getting that last inch or so in the corners, any tricks? I used a hack saw blade for the rough cut and then it was file it. Daris

.........and they just threw out the old blinds. Good idea.

[Lo Down]

Chris Flynn said Hey Lo. on the Laminate work that I have done, I have use rocklers water putty for filling voids.... and I just sanded old adhesive to smooth with a 40 grit paper.... I am not sure that I would use any thinner because it might cause a problem when glueing again...

I assume you mean this?
Donald Durham Company -- Makers of Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty (tm).

I was thinking some lacquer would just reactivate the adhesive and a flat scraper could be used to squeegee the old glue off and leave almost almost perfectly clean surface. The solvent would have plenty of time to flash off, so I don't think that would do any harm.

[Daris Mulkin]

What about the flammability of the laquer thinner? Any flames nearby?

Daris