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Ardex Feather Finish issues


"Ardex Feather Finish issues," in the Tools, Equipment and Supplies forum, begins: "I have had great results with all Taylor adhesives, i use 2091 on all vinyl backed products. Most of you ..."

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Old August 10, 2009, 07:15 AM   #1
Mike Sahli
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Ardex Feather Finish issues


I have had great results with all Taylor adhesives, i use 2091 on all vinyl backed products.
Most of you guys probably already know that Taylor makes Armstrong's S 599 and Karndean K 91.
Something i heard recently, some people believe that self drying floor patches, like Feather Finish, can dry out pressure sensitive adhesive faster than regular cement floor patch.
Any body heard that before ?

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Old August 10, 2009, 07:20 AM   #2
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Re: On bended knee


msahli said View Post
I have had great results with all Taylor adhesives, i use 2091 on all vinyl backed products.
Most of you guys probably already know that Taylor makes Armstrong's S 599 and Karndean K 91.
Something i heard recently, some people believe that self drying floor patches, like Feather Finish, can dry out pressure sensitive adhesive faster than regular cement floor patch.
Any body heard that before ?
I have found that I usually need to recoat a PSA over large areas of portland patch unless I use an additive. It seems to soak up all the stickiness.

b


Last edited by Jim McClain; August 10, 2009 at 10:13 AM.
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Old August 10, 2009, 07:34 AM   #3
Steve Olson
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Re: On bended knee


I agree with the comment about FF drying out the adhesives faster. I used the larger notches on the Armstrong trowel (!), after spreading the first shot. I didn't think it had enough grab. Using the larger notch fixed that, and I had plenty of adhesive.
On jobs where I haven't skim coated the whole floor, I will just flat side glue over the patch, then spread as usual.

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Old August 10, 2009, 08:04 AM   #4
Mike Sahli
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Re: On bended knee


Another point about Feather Finish, have been told that the sand in FF is coercer than other cement patches, and will were out trowels faster.

Any body ?

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Old August 10, 2009, 10:19 AM   #5
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Re: On bended knee


I split the discussion about Feather Finish off here because it makes an interesting topic of its own. Mike, your firsat post in this topic is just a copy of a post you made in another topic, the others above have been moved here.

Thanks.

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Old August 10, 2009, 10:33 AM   #6
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Re: Ardex Feather Finish issues


Most cement based patches will cause adhesive to dry out faster not just Feather Finish. Of course there are some substrates that will suck the moisture out than floor patch as well. One of the reason's to use an appropriate type sealer/primer is to even out open times.

As far as trowel wear out, FF is one of the smoothest out there, so nope, not buying that story.

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Old August 10, 2009, 12:50 PM   #7
Steve Forbo
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Re: Ardex Feather Finish issues


I've never really had this problem with FF. I have had problems with poorly made PS adhesives like Mapei etc.
I think if you are having an issue like this, either use a slightly larger notch trowel for the glue or prime the floor prior to gluing.
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Old August 10, 2009, 12:59 PM   #8
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Re: On bended knee


msahli said View Post
Another point about Feather Finish, have been told that the sand in FF is coercer than other cement patches, and will were out trowels faster.

Any body ?
FF is as smooth and fine as it gets. You may be referring to SDP, Ardex's heavy fill patch which has a larger aggregate in it.
You may also look into your patching technique. Many people are in the habit of applying too much pressure while patching a floor. This will cause a trowel to wear out, get a bow, and it will also require more patching. I see people all the time putting a lot of pressure on a finish trowel. What that does other than damage the trowel is removes too much patch off the floor and usually requires more layers of patch to get a smooth floor.
When good patch is used and mixed properly, a mechanic should be able to very easily spread and smooth out a floor with almost no tails and ridges. It's all in the feel.
If you ever get a chance to watch an old Italian plasterer work, do it and ask questions. Old school masons/plasterers can teach you finesse with any trowel that will require little to no scraping and a glass like finish. I was lucky enough to have my Grandfather and father show me.

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Old August 10, 2009, 02:28 PM   #9
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Re: On bended knee


msahli said View Post
Something i heard recently, some people believe that self drying floor patches, like Feather Finish, can dry out pressure sensitive adhesive faster than regular cement floor patch.
Any body heard that before ?
Haven't had Ardex Feather Finish available for quite some time, but I wouldn't doubt the claim.

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Old August 10, 2009, 03:33 PM   #10
Mike Sahli
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Re: On bended knee


Forbo King said View Post
FF is as smooth and fine as it gets. You may be referring to SDP, Ardex's heavy fill patch which has a larger aggregate in it.
You may also look into your patching technique. Many people are in the habit of applying too much pressure while patching a floor. This will cause a trowel to wear out, get a bow, and it will also require more patching. I see people all the time putting a lot of pressure on a finish trowel. What that does other than damage the trowel is removes too much patch off the floor and usually requires more layers of patch to get a smooth floor.
When good patch is used and mixed properly, a mechanic should be able to very easily spread and smooth out a floor with almost no tails and ridges. It's all in the feel.
If you ever get a chance to watch an old Italian plasterer work, do it and ask questions. Old school masons/plasterers can teach you finesse with any trowel that will require little to no scraping and a glass like finish. I was lucky enough to have my Grandfather and father show me.
Let me clarify what i brought up about FF. I should have said that there is speculation that Ardex uses a sharper sand than than other cement floor patches,not courser, my mistake.
Sharper sand ( tile setters that do mud pans understand the difference between sharp sand and round sand ) may ware down adhesive trowels faster than rounder sand.
The issue was brought up recently in an off hand discussion by a well known inspector/ installation trainer in the north west that many of you know.
I don't use FF personally, but i know its a good product, i just thought i would throw this info out there for discussion.

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Old August 10, 2009, 03:40 PM   #11
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Re: On bended knee


msahli said View Post
Let me clarify what i brought up about FF. I should have said that there is speculation that Ardex uses a sharper sand than than other cement floor patches,not courser, my mistake.
Sharper sand ( tile setters that do mud pans understand the difference between sharp sand and round sand ) may ware down adhesive trowels faster than rounder sand.
The issue was brought up recently in an off hand discussion by a well known inspector/ installation trainer in the north west that many of you know.
I don't use FF personally, but i know its a good product, i just thought i would throw this info out there for discussion.
Is Ray talking again???

b

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Old August 10, 2009, 03:45 PM   #12
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Re: On bended knee


barrycarlton said View Post
Is Ray talking again???

b
mmmmm, could be.

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Old August 10, 2009, 03:46 PM   #13
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Re: On bended knee


msahli said View Post
mmmmm, could be.
I know him personally, he was the Ardex rep after one of the times he left circle A. He sure knows the science of cements and patches!!!!!!

b

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Old August 10, 2009, 03:55 PM   #14
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Re: On bended knee


barrycarlton said View Post
I know him personally, he was the Ardex rep after one of the times he left circle A. He sure knows the science of cements and patches!!!!!!

b
The only reason i brought up the the discussion, is because the person brining it up has such great credentials, other wise, i probably wouldn't have.

Rays points where to watch your adhesive dry time, and watch those trowel notches closely .

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Old August 10, 2009, 04:00 PM   #15
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Re: On bended knee


msahli said View Post
The only reason i brought up the the discussion, is because the person brining it up has such great credentials, other wise, i probably wouldn't have.

Rays points where to watch your adhesive dry time, and watch those trowel notches closely .
He's the one who told me about the R & D Armstrong did to find out that, on average, a trowel should be changed after every 2 gallons.

As a matter of fact, a lot of what it share I learned from him.

b

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