Thank you for visiting The Floor Pro Community.
Register for FREE for even more features.    
The Floor Pro Community

Go Back   The Floor Pro Community » Public Forums for the PRO, Do-It-Yourselfer & Consumer » Vinyl Flooring Q&A


DIY full-spread install of IVC



"DIY full-spread install of IVC," in the Vinyl Flooring Q&A forum, begins: "Greetings, TFP community! I'm finishing up remodeling my house (gutted to studs and moving/adding rooms) and getting to the floors ..."

Like Tree3Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Topic Tools
Old July 13, 2011, 07:28 AM   #1
topshot
I'm starting to like it here.
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 38

DIY full-spread install of IVC


Greetings, TFP community! I'm finishing up remodeling my house (gutted to studs and moving/adding rooms) and getting to the floors soon so I had a few questions.

My only experience with vinyl so far is doing the bath upstairs in a lighter gauge IVC, which was somewhat of a challenge just because of all the the cuts needs to go around vanity, tub, closet, etc while keeping it seamless, but it turned out nice. The only problem I had was a small rip on a corner that will be covered by trim and a bubble where I didn't roll any PSA so I could step across to lay the other half. I also didn't like the PSA the dealer gave me - seemed really sticky even after 4 hours of drying but that's another story.

Knowing that, I will find one of the 4 PSAs that IVC recommends and use it as well as not leave areas bare so I can step across to lay out the second half. Product this time will be the equivalent to what their website lists as MatchGrip I think (Supreme line carried by Menards - 115 gauge, 20 yr).

So my questions:
1. Seam placement - living room is 17x12 leading into a foyer and closet on a long end. I planned to lay one long piece (~26') and make all the necessary cuts as I had done in the bath. Would it make sense to put a seem in the arch between those 2 areas, which would be perpendicular to the grain (wood pattern)?
2. Product is slightly too wide so it will extend a bit into dining room (11x15 with it's long side parallel to LR), which will take the same vinyl. With 12' product I was just going to butt edge to edge for the seam in that archway. Would it be better and/or simpler to just double cut it? I was sure how "clean" the factory edges would be.
3. To pattern match, I assume I should order one piece 1 meter longer than needed so I can then shift it as necessary.
4. Any reason to feather the 1/4" underlayment? I didn't in the bath and can't see any telegraphing of nails or joints in the thinner stuff so I figured I should be fine since I'm keeping my joints snug. This will have natural light for long distances though. I was thinking I may give a light sanding with my orbital on the joints, at least where the light from windows may highlight anomalies.
5. Kitchen will have the same type of vinyl but a non-diagonal stone pattern. What type a transition strip would you use between the 2? Those "chrome" T transitions always seemed kind of tacky to me, but not sure what would look nicer.
6. Do most seam sealers come with a V-tip or is that some part that needs to be purchased separately?
7. In doorways, you normally would have the transition (vinyl to laminate) halfway under the closed door, correct?
8. Are the May 2009 instructions from IVC still the latest? I understand they seemed to change a lot in the past.

Thanks for your help. Oh, and I also learned while searching here I shouldn't have rolled up the bath leftovers as I did so before I lay that remnant in the downstairs bath I'll re-roll it pattern out. How long does it need to be that way before laying?

TFP recommends amazon.com for tools
topshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13, 2011, 01:36 PM   #2
ortiz34
2nd generation
 
ortiz34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,829

Taylor makes a good PSA
yes, roll face out
You can straight edge the seams
Yes order more for a match patterns, wood can be tricky
The sealer is applied to the edge so it sits between the material not above, and the bottles we use do have a v tip.

I do not install so I am just trying to give you some help. Someone will be along to answer your questions

ortiz34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13, 2011, 01:41 PM   #3
stullis
a Floor Pro
Senior Member of TFP
charter member badge
 
stullis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sauk Centre, Minnesota
Posts: 4,290

If you think the bathroom was a challenge this is going to be more than you might want to bite off.

stullis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13, 2011, 03:59 PM   #4
kylenelson
You'll find me on the floor
Senior Member of TFP
 
kylenelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montana
Posts: 3,891

Not to be rude or condescending, but this sounds like a bit more than 99% of diyer's can handle. If you don't care what it looks like visually in the end then I would say to have a go at it. But you're not going to get away with butting vinyl together and it does take some skill to make a good seam in vinyl.

If you are going to try this then I would suggest the following as per your question order:

1. Your seam placement sounds fine, be sure that you have a helper to get that 26 foot piece in though, that's a lot of weight.

2. You are going to want to over lap the vinyl and double cut the seams. Now to do this you are probably going to want to get your long piece of vinyl in place and cut in first. Then in the kitchen un-roll the next piece of vinyl and slide it in to place until the pattern matches perfectly. It's easiest if you make a very small notch in the top layer of vinyl so that you can see if it is lined up perfectly or not. This will take some time and you'll have to do a lot of shifting of the piece, but your hard work and patience will pay off. Once you have the two sheets of vinyl in place exactly, take a straight edge (the heavier and longer the better) and use a utility knife to cut through both layers of vinyl at once. This will take quite a bit of pressure, but make sure you cut both layers. Holding your knife straight up and down is key here. Also use a SHARP blade i.e. brand new.

3. For pattern match it depends on the exact pattern you are buying. Check first, it usually says on the sample or a salesperson can help you. Whatever the pattern match is, I would add that much plus 3''.

4. I would patch the seams, you will see a lot more looking down a 26 foot run of vinyl than you will in a bathroom with no natural light. At the very least I would sand the seams. Speaking of which, make sure there is absolutely no dust on the floor, it is a killer of psa's.

5. Go to your nearest flooring store and see what they have for options

6. IVC has a 'squirt bottle' type seam sealer. It's a latex, like elmers glue. Make sure you don't put a huge bead down, a little bit will do. And rub off the excess that squeezes out with a clean damp rag.

7. Yes, you are correct about the transition placement. With the door closed you don't want to see the flooring that's on the other side of the door.

8. May 2009 should be fine. If you're rolling on the PSA make sure you have a good thick napped roller and let it dry completely to the point where it doesn't come off on your fingers when you touch it. But don't let it set too long either. Just watch it and wait.


Anyway, hope that helps ya out! Good luck!

Jim McClain likes this.
kylenelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13, 2011, 09:19 PM   #5
topshot
I'm starting to like it here.
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 38

stullis said View Post
If you think the bathroom was a challenge this is going to be more than you might want to bite off.
Most of of this is just big rectangles. The bath was like a jigsaw puzzle. The kitchen will be the worst , of course, since there are pantry, D/W and range cutouts, but I'm pretty sure I'll have to have a seam for the back closet, which would be the most difficult. I also will have an island, but I'm ignoring that for now and will cut out for it later.

I'm thinking since I don't have any huge space other than the living room that I should lay out the pieces in the back yard and take off some of the major excess, then re-roll it and bring it indoors to acclimate a while before doing the detail cuts.

make sure there is absolutely no dust on the floor
Shop vac OK or do you need to damp mop?

Can you rent one of those little seam rollers? I'd guess a rolling pin is too wide to accomplish what is required. A caster may work pretty much the same though.

topshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13, 2011, 09:34 PM   #6
kylenelson
You'll find me on the floor
Senior Member of TFP
 
kylenelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montana
Posts: 3,891

Shop-vac is perfect, I would stay away from using water. And you have the right idea about re-rolling the vinyl the right way as well. As long as it's not in direct sunlight or super high temps you should be fine. Letting it acclimate for an hour or so isn't a bad idea though. I have seen vinyl grow and shrink by as much as 2 inches in lengths over 20 feet.

kylenelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13, 2011, 11:23 PM   #7
kwfloors
Fuzz on the brain
Senior Member of TFP
 
kwfloors's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NW Montana
Posts: 3,005

Shop vac is fine. Make sure the filter is clean and really suck the floor to get it clean.
As far as transition, I would just seam the 2 together. I would straight edge and butt.

kwfloors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14, 2011, 05:19 AM   #8
topshot
I'm starting to like it here.
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 38

It was just dawning on me this morning that I'll have to butt rather than double cut the LR & DR pieces (so hopefully edges are clean) or I'll have to have another seam running the length of the DR. I can't afford to buy another piece just to get a 1.5' strip. You only have an effective total width of 22'-10" once you pattern match on a 1x1 meter pattern and those rooms with the arch are at 24'-2". OR I could not bother truly matching the pattern in the arch between the two rooms. This is one of the "rustic" patterns with bigger "planks" that have a 1/8" gap between planks to use like a grout line. That would give me another challenge. That would save me from ordering an extra meter on the one piece, too.

topshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14, 2011, 07:45 AM   #9
Barry Carlton
a Floor Pro
Senior Member of TFP
author badge
 
Barry Carlton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,622
Send a message via Skype™ to Barry Carlton

Straight edge and butt

Barry Carlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14, 2011, 08:25 AM   #10
Chris Mha
FITS Forum Host
charter member badge
forum host
 
Chris Mha's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North of 8 mile road.
Posts: 2,769

topshot said View Post
It was just dawning on me this morning that I'll have to butt rather than double cut the LR & DR pieces (so hopefully edges are clean) or I'll have to have another seam running the length of the DR. I can't afford to buy another piece just to get a 1.5' strip. You only have an effective total width of 22'-10" once you pattern match on a 1x1 meter pattern and those rooms with the arch are at 24'-2". OR I could not bother truly matching the pattern in the arch between the two rooms. This is one of the "rustic" patterns with bigger "planks" that have a 1/8" gap between planks to use like a grout line. That would give me another challenge. That would save me from ordering an extra meter on the one piece, too.
Speaking from experience with IVC the selvedge edges will not be clean enough for a seam and there is a small amount of excess material on the edges that must be trimmed otherwise you will have a narrow 1/2" boards showing along the seam line. I would not attempt to straight edges and but IVC. Double cut only.

Chris Mha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14, 2011, 08:43 AM   #11
stullis
a Floor Pro
Senior Member of TFP
charter member badge
 
stullis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sauk Centre, Minnesota
Posts: 4,290

Hire a professional.

stullis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14, 2011, 08:53 AM   #12
ortiz34
2nd generation
 
ortiz34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,829

stullis said View Post
Hire a professional.

He understands the ramifications, he's done it before, he's here for help on how to DIY.

ortiz34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14, 2011, 09:44 AM   #13
stullis
a Floor Pro
Senior Member of TFP
charter member badge
 
stullis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sauk Centre, Minnesota
Posts: 4,290

ortiz34 said View Post
He understands the ramifications, he's done it before, he's here for help on how to DIY.
NO he doesn't understand what he is attempting to bite off.
Nor do you as I wonder how much IVC you have glued down.

Doing a small bathroom,no matter how cut up, is nothing compared to attempting to fold back, glue and place large sheets.

doing perpendicular or cross seams in a wood look product

thinking he needs to use a transition metal from the living room vinyl to the kitchen vinyl

not understanding the need for prep.

How difficult does a project have to get before you say "you should probably hire a professional" ?

In your opinion Ortiz what flooring is the most difficult to install and easiest to screw up?

stullis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14, 2011, 11:03 AM   #14
topshot
I'm starting to like it here.
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 38

stullis said View Post
doing perpendicular or cross seams in a wood look product
I don't want a perpendicular one if I can help it, which is why I asked. My only seams will be with the grain and it sounds like I'll need to double cut on the 1/8" gaps since the edges aren't true or useable apparently.
thinking he needs to use a transition metal from the living room vinyl to the kitchen vinyl
That's only because that's all I've seen (or wood ones). Apparently, you think I should just butt and double cut that transition as kwfloors suggested? Personally, since I've never seen it that way, I would think that would look odd (real wood and stone/ceramic would not be done that way), but if that is the in thing to do now, it makes no difference to me.
not understanding the need for prep.
So you're saying I should use feathering/skim compound even if my underlayment joints are tight and smooth?

topshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14, 2011, 01:51 PM   #15
Jim McClain
Admin/Founder
 
Jim McClain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: teh Ether
Posts: 12,340

topshot said View Post
Apparently, you think I should just butt and double cut that transition as kwfloors suggested? Personally, since I've never seen it that way, I would think that would look odd (real wood and stone/ceramic would not be done that way), but if that is the in thing to do now, it makes no difference to me.
Some transitions are made by just butting wood to stone or tile, as shown in my pictures below. Some are made with a thin metal between the two. It's a matter of aesthetics and your choice to make. No pro will tell you one is the way you MUST do it. I think those who have responded to you want to help make this easy for you.

This is a formidable job. The pros here are passionate about their work and will try to guide you to the most satisfactory completion. Some believe using a pro is the way to do that. He's entitled to his opinion. You are the one that has to live with your choices for many years. Please don't be offended by the advice you get here. If you feel you are capable of doing the project, we will make an effort to help you do just that.

Jim
Attached Thumbnails (click to enlarge)
butt-wood-to-stone1.jpg   butt-wood-to-stone2.jpg  

butt-wood-to-tile1.jpg   butt-wood-to-tile2.jpg  

Jim McClain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Go Back   The Floor Pro Community » Public Forums for the PRO, Do-It-Yourselfer & Consumer » Vinyl Flooring Q&A
go to previous or next topic in this forum
« Earthscapes Titanium question | vinyl and pvc shrinkage »

Topic Tools


Similar Topics to DIY full-spread install of IVC
Topic Topic Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full contact morters Mike Sahli Ceramic & Stone Sales and Installations 8 August 13, 2009 12:34 AM
Tandy your PM box is full Danny Ferguson Taking a Break From Flooring 1 June 18, 2009 11:58 AM
Full Spread Jon Scanlan Vinyl Flooring Q&A 13 January 30, 2007 08:29 PM
Trick to spread linoleum adhesive Lo Down Vinyl & Rubber Flooring Sales and Installations 26 December 9, 2006 06:47 PM
Full Cove Vinyl Steve Olson Vinyl Flooring Q&A 10 May 27, 2006 12:11 AM

collapse Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
support TFP

JonnyCorners


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:48 AM.

Home   About   Contact   TOS   Privacy   Website Map   Top

Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. | All Site Content 2006-2014 TheFloorPro.com