Thank you for visiting The Floor Pro Community.
Register for FREE for even more features.    
The Floor Pro Community

Go Back   The Floor Pro Community » Public Forums for the PRO, Do-It-Yourselfer & Consumer » Vinyl Flooring Q&A


Armstrong Alterna or Congoleum DuraCeramic? Possibly no grout?



"Armstrong Alterna or Congoleum DuraCeramic? Possibly no grout?," in the Vinyl Flooring Q&A forum, begins: "Newbie here....trying to decide between the 2 above for kitchen & den. Both are light floors....(Armstrong - Sistine Bisque D4151) ..."

Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By Barry Carlton

Reply
 
LinkBack Topic Tools
Old July 19, 2011, 02:45 PM   #1
MsB
One of the Irregulars
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23

Armstrong Alterna or Congoleum DuraCeramic? Possibly no grout?


Newbie here....trying to decide between the 2 above for kitchen & den. Both are light floors....(Armstrong - Sistine Bisque D4151) (Congoleum - Earthpath - Sunny Clay EP-14), in case you are familar with those.

Considering not using grout for several reasons.....is this OK? Do you have a preference for which one to use, whether I use grout or not?

This is for a house built in 1987....I am told if our previous vinyl sheet flooring is Ok, they will lay these vinyl tiles over that.

We have a full/unfinished basement underneath and one store recommended having a subfloor & underlayment boards. I am assuming this is for vinyl tiles that have grout. Is this necessary with grout? How about without grout?

We will be paying for installation.

I have been lurking here for awhile and I really do appreciate all of the wonderful info I have read......my head is about to explode with all of the info! Any opinions/advice will be appreciated!

TFP recommends Plow & Hearth

Last edited by MsB; July 19, 2011 at 04:39 PM. Reason: more info
MsB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19, 2011, 07:33 PM   #2
Jeff Auld
Auld floors & More
 
Jeff Auld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Molalla, Or
Posts: 153

I did a install of the armstrong grout in kitchen and none in bath as the costumer asked, the bath was ugly without, the tiles don't really butt together very well. If you want a non grouted floor find a commercial tile or look at Kardean. What is the basement now, concrete?

Jeff Auld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19, 2011, 07:53 PM   #3
Guy Arnal
guy arnal
 
Guy Arnal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Posts: 59

Ive done over 500 dura jobs including some over underflor paper. The pnly problem Ive ever had was a customer who chose white grout on a dark floor. If youre not going to grout buy sheet vinyl. Subfloor is only needed if the existing floor is in terrible shape.

Guy Arnal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20, 2011, 05:30 AM   #4
ortiz34
2nd generation
 
ortiz34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,863

Guy Arnal said View Post
Subfloor is only needed if the existing floor is in terrible shape.
Not with a groutable LVT, the floor can flex, causing the grout to crack away from the tile. I would do it right the first time, new subfloor, grout it and you will be one happy camper. the grout is acrylic so it doesn't stain or get dirty as easy as a water based mixed grout for real tile.
Alterna and Dura are seriously apples to apples, buy the one you like visually. I sell both.

ortiz34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20, 2011, 05:49 AM   #5
MsB
One of the Irregulars
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23

Thanks for the reply guys!

Jeff...

Yes, the basement is concrete. I saw a floor put down with the Congoleum that was ungrouted and I too thought it was ugly, but it was a very dark floor. The stores had a sample of ungrouted light colored tiles like I would use and it looked a lot better....almost like it had a very thin light grout. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely look into them!

Guy...I guess I'm nervous about the grout due to the stories I've read where the installer did not do it correctly and it's still cracking...just do not want the headache. I am also leaning towards the tiles instead of sheet vinyl cause it would be easier to replace a tile if something sharp/heavy was dropped on the floor....seems like it's more durable than sheet vinyl. One store offered to order as if we would grout, put some down without grout to see how I liked it....and then I could decide whether to grout or not....only having to pay a "restock" fee for the grout in case I didn't use it.

What to do, what to do....very confused! Also, what happens if I start having trouble with the grout 10 years down the line? What would I do if the color of grout I have chosen is not being made anymore?

Thanks for all the insight!!!!!

MsB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20, 2011, 05:51 AM   #6
MsB
One of the Irregulars
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23

ortiz....do you not recommend/like light colored vinyl tiles that are not grouted? Have you seen large rooms done this way? Thanks!!!

PS...I'm leaning towards the Armstrong Alterna. It is my understanding that is has "straight" edges I believe, if this makes any difference.


Last edited by MsB; July 20, 2011 at 11:50 AM. Reason: more info
MsB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20, 2011, 12:42 PM   #7
MsB
One of the Irregulars
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23

Is it a big plus to have certified installers for Armstrong Alterna vinyl tiles? Is++


the grout used premixed? I keep reading where some installers used too much water and that is why the grout cracks...is that with mixing the grout or water used during installation? What can we do as consumers? Just voice our concerns over grout issues and question what their warranty is? Should we go with certified installers? Thanks guys...as you can tell, I am new to this!


....if and when any of you have the time, I would also appreciate any opinions on my other post below

MsB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2011, 12:00 AM   #8
stullis
a Floor Pro
Senior Member of TFP
charter member badge
 
stullis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sauk Centre, Minnesota
Posts: 4,290

Go with a grouted installation especially in a large room. The tile size variations are not very conducive for an ungrouted install.

Yes, the grout is "premixed". The "too much water" issue is during the clean up process. If you use to much water it causes the grout to crack or "shrink" in the joints and can also cause it to be weakened.

This can even be an issue after the stuff has dried or cured so I recommend wiping up spills and not let water just sit on the joints for long periods of time.
Generally not a big issue but something to be aware of. Basically the same reason we cannot use this type of grout in a shower.

Certified installers means they have been exposed to the companies installation methods. Armstrong's certification program is one of the better ones in the industry so I would expect those installers to be fairly good.

But between you and me, many of the install "tricks" that are being taught for using this grout are just plain wrong.

Even with that said I think you will be very happy with the product installed using the grout.

stullis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2011, 03:41 AM   #9
MsB
One of the Irregulars
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23

Thanks Stullis! I am leaning towards the grouted installation...it really did look nice. I have a few more questions if you guys will bear with me: Do most people pull out the dishwasher and put new tile under there? One store told me they usually go about 3 inches under. Also, I believe the instructions said no walking on the floor for at least 24 hours. And only light foot traffic for the next 24 hours. I guess that means to keep the furniture off of it for 48 hours also? I do not have a stove (cooktop and wall oven), but should we disconnect the refrigerator and move it out for 48 hours? Thanks again everyone....you've been great!

MsB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2011, 05:57 AM   #10
ortiz34
2nd generation
 
ortiz34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,863

Dishwashers set up and clearances vary, yes Alterna has square sides so no sealer is needed if you go ungrouted (Armstrongs words not mine).

Grout it up!
What color tile do you like, and if you wouldn't mind me asking how much a sq ft they are getting for just the tile?

ortiz34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2011, 07:06 AM   #11
MsB
One of the Irregulars
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23

ortiz,

I am going with a light floor (Alterna - Sistine - Bisque)...unless I change my mind, which could happen ...I want a contrast to all the oak cabinets, chair rails, crown molding - just a lot of wood in the kitchen & den.

The quotes so far are a little under $5 sq. foot. At least one store said they could probably do better since it's 700 sq. ft. for the kitchen & den. We are planning to get 3 quotes, so we'll see what they say when they come out.

How long do you recommend leaving the refrigerator off of the floor? It's not going to be a problem for us....want to do it right. Thanks!

MsB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2011, 08:37 AM   #12
ortiz34
2nd generation
 
ortiz34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,863

MsB said View Post
ortiz,

I am going with a light floor (Alterna - Sistine - Bisque)...unless I change my mind, which could happen ...I want a contrast to all the oak cabinets, chair rails, crown molding - just a lot of wood in the kitchen & den.

The quotes so far are a little under $5 sq. foot. At least one store said they could probably do better since it's 700 sq. ft. for the kitchen & den. We are planning to get 3 quotes, so we'll see what they say when they come out.

How long do you recommend leaving the refrigerator off of the floor? It's not going to be a problem for us....want to do it right. Thanks!
$5sq ft is totally fair, look for anywhere around 3-$3.50 for install without extras (rip up/prep/moving appliances etc)
Im off today so tomorrow I will have more input on your colors

ortiz34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2011, 08:40 AM   #13
Barry Carlton
a Floor Pro
Senior Member of TFP
author badge
 
Barry Carlton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,613
Send a message via Skype™ to Barry Carlton

ortiz34 said View Post
$5sq ft is totally fair, look for anywhere around 3-$3.50 for install without extras (rip up/prep/moving appliances etc)
Im off today so tomorrow I will have more input on your colors
Ortie,
You're always "off"

ortiz34 likes this.
Barry Carlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2011, 11:37 AM   #14
MsB
One of the Irregulars
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23

...thanks ortiz

look forward to hearing your opinion on the colors....

MsB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2011, 01:28 PM   #15
Elmer Fudd
Administwative Assistant
Senior Member of TFP
TFP supporter badge
charter member badge
lead mod badge
 
Elmer Fudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Today, Under the Wainbow. Tomowwo, who knows?
Posts: 6,528

ortiz34 said View Post
Im off today so tomorrow

Why are you "off" more today?

That is normal for you, right?

When Barry is there for Nora training maybe youse guys could get together!!

Elmer Fudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags for This Topic
armstrong alterna, congoleum duraceramic

   View the Tag Cloud

Go Back   The Floor Pro Community » Public Forums for the PRO, Do-It-Yourselfer & Consumer » Vinyl Flooring Q&A
go to previous or next topic in this forum
« Mannington Natures Path | LG Nature Life Seams »

Topic Tools


Similar Topics to Armstrong Alterna or Congoleum DuraCeramic? Possibly no grout?
Topic Topic Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Opinions on Congoleum DuraCeramic ridged43 Vinyl Flooring Q&A 6 July 9, 2011 06:36 AM
Vinyl Plank SHOWDOWN... Armstrong vs Congoleum telecaster Vinyl Flooring Q&A 5 October 6, 2010 07:03 PM
Q about Acrylic Grout (Armstrong Alterna) BEH Vinyl Flooring Q&A 5 September 13, 2010 08:44 PM
Just took on Armstrong Alterna LVT ortiz34 Vinyl & Rubber Flooring Sales and Installations 1 November 10, 2009 06:39 AM
Duraceramic grout Barry Carlton Vinyl & Rubber Flooring Sales and Installations 11 June 4, 2008 07:09 PM

collapse Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
support TFP

Visit us on facebook
JonnyCorners

backcountry.com

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:46 PM.

Home   About   Contact   TOS   Privacy   Website Map  

Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. | All Site Content ©2006-2014 TheFloorPro.com