IVC Earthscapes installation problems

very unsatisfied customer · May 19, 2009, 10:56 AM

I had IVC vinyl flooring installed over a subfloor in August 2007, It was totally glued down. Within two months it had bubbled in several places. It took 3 months for Carpet One to get the installer back to fix the bubbling. What he did was cut big squares of my floor out to patch where the bubbles were. The patches didn't lay down properly and he used the wrong sealer which made the seams stand out. After getting the factory rep to come out-my floor was replaced-not with the same color as I had before because mine had been discontinued. Again, the installation was a full glue with roller. Within 9 months again I started having bubbling in several places. There is no moistore problem. Again, Carpet One sent an installer out who pulled back my entire floor and reglued it. 2 weeks later my step-son scooted back a bar stool and tore the floor. I sent pictures to Carpet One.
This is their solution-they will send the installer out to repair the floor (remember this happened on the first floor and it didn't work) and they will not honor the 15 year warrenty again or I can buy another brand of vinyl flooring from them at cost.
I have had several homes with vinyl flooring and have never had the issues that I have had with the Earthscape flooring. Would I recommend it to anyone-absolutely not, buy Armstrong, Congoleum, Mannington, anything but IVC's Earthscapes. By the way-I am taking up the offer to buy a new floor from them at cost. So my original $1300. investment in a floor will now cost me that $1300 plus the cost of a different floor. Is this fair to the consumer????

Barry Carlton · May 19, 2009, 11:21 AM

very unsatisfied customer said

I had IVC vinyl flooring installed over a subfloor in August 2007, It was totally glued down. Within two months it had bubbled in several places. It took 3 months for Carpet One to get the installer back to fix the bubbling. What he did was cut big squares of my floor out to patch where the bubbles were. The patches didn't lay down properly and he used the wrong sealer which made the seams stand out. After getting the factory rep to come out-my floor was replaced-not with the same color as I had before because mine had been discontinued. Again, the installation was a full glue with roller. Within 9 months again I started having bubbling in several places. There is no moistore problem. Again, Carpet One sent an installer out who pulled back my entire floor and reglued it. 2 weeks later my step-son scooted back a bar stool and tore the floor. I sent pictures to Carpet One.
This is their solution-they will send the installer out to repair the floor (remember this happened on the first floor and it didn't work) and they will not honor the 15 year warrenty again or I can buy another brand of vinyl flooring from them at cost.
I have had several homes with vinyl flooring and have never had the issues that I have had with the Earthscape flooring. Would I recommend it to anyone-absolutely not, buy Armstrong, Congoleum, Mannington, anything but IVC's Earthscapes. By the way-I am taking up the offer to buy a new floor from them at cost. So my original $1300. investment in a floor will now cost me that $1300 plus the cost of a different floor. Is this fair to the consumer????

What was the subfloor they glued it over, existing vinyl, particleboard, plywood, OSB?
The only time I have seen this problem happen consistently like in your case is when Floor finish (think wax) was not removed prior to adhesive application, dust on the dried adhesive (inhibiting the adhesion process), finally and more frequently, using a Pressure Sensitive Adhesive (PSA) that is designed for carpet instead of the more aggressive (and expensive) PSA designed for vinyls.

b

TFP Admin · May 19, 2009, 11:30 AM

VUC, you replied to someone else's topic with issues unrelated to that except for the manufacturer. I moved your post and the reply to its own topic.

TFP Admin

Nick Arrera · May 19, 2009, 11:39 AM

VUC , I have installed a few thousand yards of earthscapes with no problems .

If installed properly it is a good floor . please answer Barrys questions .

I would certainly look into having a independent inspecton done before i gave up $1,300.00

It is quite possible the wrong glue and installer was used .

Ken · May 19, 2009, 02:56 PM

I also would like to know if they used a different adhesive over the original adhesive, with out removing or encapsulating the first adhesive.

May 21, 2009, 10:55 AM

The first installation was over a brand new subfloor that the installer put in. I do not know what kind of glue he used. The subfloor was not particle board. To fix the bubbles he cut out the whole area in 3 different places and tried to lay patchs in. They didn't lay flat and he used a shiny sealer on a mat vinyl. Each of these patch jobs were about 24" long and approximately 12" wide. A 5 month old floor that was put down without seams now had 12 different places that had seams.

The second installation supposedly went in over another new subfloor-I wasn't home to see this-I showed up as the installers were getting ready to lay the floor-again, I do not know what kind of glue they used-I do know that they rolled it after the vinyl was put down. Again it bubbled in a couple of places. The largest being about 20" long and 3" wide.

Carpet one sent out another installer to repair the bubbles. So now I have had three different Carpet One installers working on my kitchen floor. This time the installer pulled the whole floor loose from the subfloor and reglued and yes he reglued over the other glue. Again I do not know what kind of glue he used. The floor tore 2 weeks later-was the backing compromised due to being pulled loose off the subfloor?

My issue is that Carpet One wants to try and repair the tear (remember it didn't work before)and will not warrent the floor again. What if it bubbles again-that is not my fault nor do I have any control over it, and now I've been told they will not come back and fix it ever again-so much for the 15 year warrenty.

The solution of making me buy another floor is also not fair to me as a consumer. I bought this product in good faith and it has not performed as represented. I can ask the questions that the other installers have asked in the forum-however I won't get straight answers. I have been asking for a copy of the IVC warrenty for weeks now and I still don't have that.

rusty baker · May 21, 2009, 05:13 PM

Don't know if this will work, but it is an IVC warranty, Flexitec Warranty Fom IVC

Barry Carlton · May 21, 2009, 05:15 PM

Try one of these links for warranty info:

http://www.ivcgroup.com/_pdf/_upload/1211470438.pdf

or

:: IVC Group US - luxury, vinyl, flooring :: - Product

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rgfloor · May 21, 2009, 05:51 PM

Have you contacted IVC? They would ask for an inspection by a Certified Flooring Inspector, has this been done?

Do not start with a confrontational attitude but rather with a "how can we make this work" mentality. From the sound of it you have been jerked around quite a bit, but don't give up and just spend more money, ask how this can be corrected.

Have you contacted Carpet One's national headquarters? They will push your local retailer to settle the issue.

With all that being said we hope you are giving us full disclosure! All too often I as an inspector only hear one side of the story, and it sounds bad, but when we hear both sides sometimes everything changes. I'm just saying!!

very unsatisfied customer · May 22, 2009, 09:16 AM

I did contact IVC directly last week. The woman in customer service that I spoke to said that they didn't take customer complaints directly because they were a small company and didn't have the manpower to help consumers directly. She made it very clear that I had to have the store make the claim. It was absolutly no help going that direction.

I contacted Carpet One headquarters yesterday and the lady that I spoke with said that she would contact the owner that owns this Carpet One franchise and would get back to me. I'm waiting on that call.

As for both sides of the story---My background---My grandfather was an installer and my father started out as a commercial installer and then owned Morrison Floor Covering in Enid, Oklahoma for 46 years-I grew up in the business-I was even around in the linoleum era. I know how to take care of a vinyl floor and have had vinyl in 5 other homes without incident. I do not have a moisture issue, the floor is laid over a subfloor on a high crawl space.
I only have adult kids in my home on average once a month, I do not wear spike shoes-etc, this floor has not been abused.

I have tried to be pleasent thru out this whole ordeal but I have had enough.
The first claim from the time I called about it until something was done took from Oct '07 until Jan '07. That was the one where the installer cut the bubbles out and tried to patch. Then to get that floor replaced after the installer damaged it so badly took from Jan '07 until March '07 before a new floor was installed.
The second floor, when it bubbled up- I called about Dec '08, it wasn't until March 28,'09 before someone came out. The last tear-I called it in on April 13 and here it is May 22 and still no real resolution.

I know my posts are really long-but as you can see I have been dealing with this issue for 1 1/2 years. It is very hard not to be confrontational at this point.

Thanks for taking the time to send the warranty information-you guys are great. I still don't have a copy from the store....

Carpet One corporate just called-Amanda has called IVC and the Owner of this franchise and someone is to get ahold of me to settle this issue-I'll keep you posted.

rusty baker · May 22, 2009, 12:04 PM

I know how frustrating they can be. I called IVC once about seam sealer and the secretary who answered could give no info and said they did not have a tech dept.

rgfloor · May 22, 2009, 02:28 PM

very unsatisfied customer said

As for both sides of the story---My background---My grandfather was an installer and my father started out as a commercial installer and then owned Morrison Floor Covering in Enid, Oklahoma for 46 years-I grew up in the business-I was even around in the linoleum era. I know how to take care of a vinyl floor and have had vinyl in 5 other homes without incident. I do not have a moisture issue, the floor is laid over a subfloor on a high crawl space.

.

Great background!, however just having vinyl in 5 homes does not reassure me of its care. You see IVC is a different kind of vinyl than you are use to. It is installed differently, cared for differently and reacts differently to what we ALL are use to. Even its manufacturers have had to change their installation and care spec several times.
Let me ask a question, you said moving a stool tore the floor. What was on the leg of the stool? Was it wood, a plastic glide, a steel glide a rubber foot?
I am not trying to argue here, only trying to help all of us understand the issues.

very unsatisfied customer · May 26, 2009, 10:33 AM

The stool leg has a plastic glide. It is the same stool that has been used for the past 1 1/2 years without incident on this vinyl.

I'm not as angry about the tear as I am about the fact that both floors have bubbled up with a full spread installation and the amount of time it takes to get anyone from Carpet One or IVC to come out to try and remedy the problem-yesterday I found yet another loose spot by my door-the vinyl is not sticking to the glue-I don't think I'll even try and address this new issue.

Carpet One has the Beautiful guarantee that states: We want you to be 100% happy that the floor we've created together is as beautiful as the one in your dreams. If not, we will replace it for free. They haven't done that. They replaced the installer damaged floor with a different pattern (my original had been discontinued) of the same IVC material --even after I asked for a different company product. The consumers need to be wary of believing
Carpet One's guarantee-it hasn't worked for me and my floor of my dreams has turned into one big nightmare.

Per Carpet One's corporate office someone is supposed to be contacting me from the store, I'll let you know when (if) I hear from someone and what the outcome is.

rgfloor · May 26, 2009, 11:52 AM

I am sorry that this has turned into a big nightmare for you. Hang in there it will get resolved. I am sure that the local C-1 store feels it is a big nightmare for them also. It should have been handled differently, starting with an inspection by someone who is qualified.

Quite frankly, based on the information you have provided it sounds like there may be a moisture issue. Yes, I read where you state that there is none (twice in fact) do you have moisture readings or what do you base that on? Moisture can cause bubbling of the vinyl (adhesive release). If it is bubbled then a stool lkeg can catch and rip the floor.

You asked if the backing could be compromised by taking the floor up? The answer is NO, because there is no backing as we know it. The floor is a solid vinyl.

very unsatisfied customer · May 27, 2009, 12:54 PM

As of today I still haven't heard from anyone from the Tulsa Carpet One franchise. I tried to call Amanda at the corporate office-she hasn't returned my call yet.

the sub-floor shows no indication of moisture when the vinyl is lifted off it. This part of my house is on a subfloor that is raised about 2 1/2 feet from the ground. If there was a moisture problem why then would the 20 year old Armstrong solarium floor that I replaced (actually covered up with sub-floor) still have been stuck down tight? I have gone all over this issue with my dad and he can't think of any reason the flooring is bubbling.

I want to go back to Armstrong solarium if I can get any satisfaction from Carpet One-I'm so done with the Earthscape flooring.