Questions about Allure and floor preparations for my kitchen remodel

[Wecanoe]

Greetings,

Want re redo failing unpadded kitchen vinyl. It was installed ~1990 (thus presuming no asbestos?), on 3/8" board over old linoleum glued on squares. Not sure whether perimeter glued or all over glued. A bit of a wow exists in front of dishwasher where leaky seal let H20 in under vinyl. Not too bad though. I can live with it. Edges are torn a bit where I have enlarged the wood stove hearth and installed engineered wood in next room. Can not find install info on Allure commercial grade (Home Depot), but Konecto seems like similar product. Both consist of adhesive edged strips that create a "repairable" floating floor.

Questions:
1) how much surface variation will Allure commercial grade handle? I recall seeing 2 mm, or about 1/8" for Konecto. Safe to presume same for Allure?
2) How to feather edges of torn vinyl? Skive carefully with a sharp knife (will try)? Or, just peel as much up as I can and scrape the rest as smooth as I can without getting into the fuss of completely removing adhesive

Thanks kindly in advance for any thoughts. Best regards, Wecanoe

[TFP Admin]

I moved your post to its own topic. You replied to a 2 year old topic that died a long time ago. That's a no-no, as was mentioned in the rules. You'll get better response to your questions here.



TFP Admin

[Wecanoe]

To Admin;

My error. Thanks. Wecanoe.

[BrianM]

Originally Posted by Wecanoe Greetings, Want re redo failing unpadded kitchen vinyl. It was installed ~1990 (thus presuming no asbestos?), on 3/8" board over old linoleum glued on squares. Not sure whether perimeter glued or all over glued. A bit of a wow exists in front of dishwasher where leaky seal let H20 in under vinyl. Not too bad though. I can live with it. Edges are torn a bit where I have enlarged the wood stove hearth and installed engineered wood in next room. Can not find install info on Allure commercial grade (Home Depot), but Konecto seems like similar product. Both consist of adhesive edged strips that create a "repairable" floating floor. Questions: 1) how much surface variation will Allure commercial grade handle? I recall seeing 2 mm, or about 1/8" for Konecto. Safe to presume same for Allure? 2) How to feather edges of torn vinyl? Skive carefully with a sharp knife (will try)? Or, just peel as much up as I can and scrape the rest as smooth as I can without getting into the fuss of completely removing adhesive Thanks kindly in advance for any thoughts. Best regards, Wecanoe

*
You're going to have to peel back a corner of the existing vinyl to see what kind of backing and adhesive were used. If it's a perimeter glue this job should be a snap. If it's fully adhered felt back goods you have a different set of problems.

[Wecanoe]

Brian,

Thanks for your comments. Have peeled few inches back along two edges. Backing is yellow paper, fairly thin. Adhesive is white, estimated less than 0.5 mm thick, circular pattern, fine tooth trowel about 2-3 mm tooth spacing. Underlayment 3/8" OSB extending under the cabinetry, thus a bearcat to remove. Hoping vinyl only perimeter glued. Will test that hypothesis after wood stove hearth is completed. If it takes serious scraping, then so be it. Y'all have a wonderful and safe Fourth! Wecanoe.

[Country Flooring Direct]

why not cut a hole in the middle of the floor with a utility knife to see if its perimeter glued or not? If it isnt you could just take a pry bar and rip out the floor subfloor and all put in a new subfloor and not worry about scraping and patching and patching and scraping.

[TFP Admin]

Originally Posted by countryflooringdirect why not cut a hole in the middle of the floor with a utility knife to see if its perimeter glued or not? If it isnt you could just take a pry bar and rip out the floor subfloor and all put in a new subfloor and not worry about scraping and patching and patching and scraping.

I think countryflooringdirect is referring to underlayment, not subfloor. Subfloor is the structural material that is fastened to the floor joists in wood floor construction (subfloor on a concrete slab construction is the slab itself).

Underlayment is the material installed on top of the subfloor and under the finished materials. It can be OSB, but many people confuse this with particleboard. Other underlayments include plywood and other wood type panels and cementious panels that generally go under ceramics. Some people don't realize that underlayments also include SLC (self-leveling cement or concrete) and other Portland Cement based and gypsum based leveling and patching compounds. This is only a short list of underlayments.

If the underlayment is in wood type panels and is installed before the cabinets were, then a pry bar is not the only tool you will need to remove the underlayment. But even with the cabinets on top, it's not impossible to remove - and may be advisable if your underlayment really is OSB or particleboard, as mentioned.

R'gards,

Jim

[stullis]

Just go over the top of what you have, that's what the product is designed to do.

It should handle your "wow" okay. Flatter is always better.

Skive off the high stuff and use floor leveler/patch to smooth it out.

[Country Flooring Direct]

Jim,

Yup thats what i meant.

Stullis has a good idea as well, good point about the particle board.

Have fun with the floor.

[BrianM]

Originally Posted by stullis Just go over the top of what you have, that's what the product is designed to do. It should handle your "wow" okay. Flatter is always better. Skive off the high stuff and use floor leveler/patch to smooth it out.

*
That's how I look at it. I'm just a little concerned about the "wow" or any other curling and buckling in the existing vinyl. Be sure it's not from any lingering moisture condition. That will be pretty evident just by looking at the glue and wood underneath as you cut out and peel back the areas that have failed.

Key issue here pointed out by stullis; this situation is EXACTLY why they designed this kind of installation system.

EASY MONEY!!!!

[stullis]

Cheap product, diy installation. HD don't care nor does the manufacturer of Allure, pure profit motives.

[Wecanoe]

CFD,

Thanks for the post. And greetings to Tennesseans. I started out in the world down there in 1946, but the folks moved after 6 mo. Had thought about the option you describe and did cut and remove 4 sf of vinyl and 3/8 osb to extend the wood stove hearth. But the osb extends under the kitchen cabinets. Getting new and old edges even after cutting struck also me as potential problem, not to mention all the fun with skil saw and/or router in cutting the perimeter. The vinyl skin peels pretty easily; backing is thin and scrapes easily; adhesive is thin with no appreciable ridges. With all that in mind, current plan is to extricate dishwasher and stove, peel off the entire vinyl surface, scrape any areas flat where needed and lay down floating Allure Commercial grade. May add 1 1/4 galv screws because it looks like previous owners used brads to hold down the osb. Yikes. Then go fishing. Whew. Best 4th of July regards, Wecanoe

p.s. The floor is constructed as follows (1960's vintage, pre county building code): 1x6 fir subfloor diagonal on joists> 3/4 ply > old brittle tile> kitchen 3/8 osb> glued sheet vinyl

[stullis]

Option 1 Patch floor back in as best you can and go over the top.

Option 2 get a toe kick saw and remove down to the 3/4" ply, patch/level and install floor.

[Wecanoe]

Scott,

Thanks for the options. Local friends put down the floating Allure wood grain 1x3 strips over a very wavy kitchen floor (they tried leveling compound and it set up before they could level it!) and it looks pretty good. Based on their experience, given my later stage in life, the time this house redo has already cut into recreation and my declining sense of esthetics, I will go with option 1. I can hear my late wife's approval re recreation time. Best, Wecanoe