Konecto Casa edges coming apart

[Lo Down]

Lifsabsurd said The thing is that the warranty requirements for temperature have been changed over time. I discussed that earlier in this thread. The instructions I received in the boxes said one thing. The current temp. requirements are not the same.

So Konecto learned something then didn't they.

One other note about shrinkage and heat. Vinyl will expand from heat............. but over time it can shrink. Put a heat gun, sunlight, or as a friend of mine did once with a floor buffer on some perimeter glued vinyl............ it grows. Age + heat + time can shrink it.

[Lifsabsurd]

Lo Down said So Konecto learned something then didn't they. One other note about shrinkage and heat. Vinyl will expand from heat............. but over time it can shrink. Put a heat gun, sunlight, or as a friend of mine did once with a floor buffer on some perimeter glued vinyl............ it grows. Age + heat + time can shrink it.

This is an interesting point. See post #112 in this thread. When I spoke to a lab guy at Professional Testing Labs he recommended testing for "dimensional stability." We talked about this topic and he informed me that PVC shrinks with increasing temperature like, for example, cotton or polyester clothes in the clothes dryer. I had previously assumed that it was decreasing temp. that would cause shrinkage.

According to the lab guy there are industry standards for "dimensional stability." I wonder how these planks would do on the professional test. Anyone want to chip in to pay for the $100 test (estimated for shipping planks and cost of test)?

[Lifsabsurd]

For the record, I repeated the bent tab test on both Konecto and Allure planks. The results were the same. Within a few days the Konecto lifted again. The Allure has not lifted for over a week. This test is not quantitative, but I held the Konecto tab up and counted to 20 and I did the same for the Allure tab - trying not to bend one more than the other.

There seems to me on this basis to be a difference either in the holding power of the glue or in the characteristics of the materials in my Konecto versus the Allure. Konecto has said this was a bad glue batch, and that is consistent with this result. Nevertheless, if I were installing Konecto planks I would be very careful about not bending the tabs up as I install them, even if the glue is good.

I never rented a 100 pound roller again to test the idea that rolling causes curling. I did try a rolling pin from the kitchen and it had no apparent effect. I doubt that the rolling was a problem, but I am not sure. Someone should test it.

If temperature is a factor in all this, it seems to me that there must be a sort of "borderline only" effect. Perhaps at borderline low temps. (somewhere around 63 to 65 degrees?) the material is induced to curl upward and is still flexible enough for the tabs to lift and separate. Perhaps this effect happens down to even lower temps. But, at some point, with respect to low temps., the material seems to be too inflexible to curl and yet the glue seems to hold. Anyone else want to comment on temperature effects?

I still wonder about what other causes there may be for curling to occur, including the question as to whether the technique of installation, of laying the planks, could actually induce significant bending of the upper tabs. I doubt it, but it could be crudely tested.

Apparently, I have received a full refund for the materials from Indiana Flooring, my retailer. Hugh Scott seems to have credited the cost back to my credit card. I can only say good things at this point about his role in all this.

He states that he has only had a couple of such failures and I suppose that is correct. In other words, to the best of my knowledge, most people seem to have had good luck with Konecto. Just don't be one of those who has bad luck. Once the flooring is torn out I estimate that this experience will still have cost me about $500, not counting my own labor, with nothing to show for it.

[Lifsabsurd]

Want to hear something funny?

I have been in contact with the BBB of Connecticut, where Metroflor is located. I have been trying for some time to get reimbursed for the money I feel they owe me for labor. I only asked for the $300 it cost me to have the old Konecto flooring torn out and hauled away.

Today I got an e-mail from the BBB. In it is a response from Metroflor. Metroflor claims to have paid over $1500 to its distributor IN ADDITION to the materials-cost-reimbursement which I got. It claims the distributor was supposed to send this to the retailer who was supposed to have sent it to me. I never got it. Nor have I got a notification that I would be getting it.

So, what is the truth? Damned if I know. But perhaps I have been unfair to Konecto. And perhaps Konecto should find better distributors and/or retailers?

[Lifsabsurd]

Let me make it clear. Metroflor claims that it did authorize and give out payment for over $1500 of LABOR costs - which I never got.

[TFP Admin]

Sounds like it's time to confront the dealer with this info.

Jim

[Lifsabsurd]

Just sent an e-mail to him.

[kylenelson]

This will only get messy if someone's lying. If there's an honest mistake somewhere I'm sure it can be resolved easily. However, if you have to make the dealer prove how much they recieved by seeing bank statements then it might get ugly haha.

I'm truly sorry for all the troubles you've had with your floor. What a nightmare.

[rgfloor]

TFP Admin said Sounds like it's time to confront the dealer with this info. Jim

The dealer is none other than Hugh Scott.

He has stated several times that he is a Christian.

[Barry Carlton]

rgfloor said The dealer is none other than Hugh Scott. He has stated several times that he is a Christian.

Makes you wonder why someone would have to trumpet it ahead of him.

Kinda like trumpeting how great an installer you are. It really should be evident in your life/workmanship and reputation.

My statement is not about a certain individual it is an observation about people.

[TFP Admin]

rgfloor said The dealer is none other than Hugh Scott. He has stated several times that he is a Christian.

I agree in part what Barry said, but I do see why some would want to let people know certain things, especially if those things wouldn't be so apparent on a medium like the Internet. Problem with putting that out there enough for people to remember, is that occasionally you'll do something decidedly un-Christian. Then people will jump all over it.

I don't think it matters who or what the dealer is. The consumer in this case has been told something by the manufacturer and it should be passed onto the dealer so the consumer can decide what steps to take next. If it's true, it's an opportunity for the dealer to make it right. If it's not true, then putting the parties together should bring that to light and further action can be taken.

Nice thing about this particular topic is that both Konecto and the dealer are following it. I am pretty sure it will get resolved somehow. Reputations are at stake here.

Jim

[Lifsabsurd]

Well, interesting. At least to me. Here are the facts as I understand them. If I find that any facts are wrong I will correct them in future posts.

I received a reply from my retailer. He admits that he and the distributor received the roughly $1500 in labor costs from Konecto in addition to the materials cost reimbusement given to them. But he argues that this money simply reimbursed them for shipping costs and their markup (profit), amounts that were not included by Konecto in the materials reimbusement. He argues that, if Konecto had not given them this labor cost money, he would not have been able to give me a full materials refund without losing money. Imagine, Konecto gave money to them for my labor costs.

[Of course the way I see it he means - without losing his profit on the deal. Does this mean then that he never had any intention of sacrificing his profit on the deal, even when the merchandise turned out to be defective? I don't know. What do you think? I once gave him credit for being willing to give back the profit he made on the deal.]

He once offered me the $300 I asked for to cover the cost of removing and hauling away the defective tile. It was my understanding that *he* would be giving me that money, out of his own pocket. He told me that he would try to get it back from Konecto. I declined to take his money, saying I wanted it from Konecto, not him. I wanted to be fair to him.

I do not know whether he and the distributor had already received labor cost money from Konecto at the time, or whether Konecto had already agreed to pay such money, or whether Konecto agreed to give them the labor cost money only after this offer was made by him to me. He did not inform me of that.

I have to wonder. Shipping costs? What, a couple of hundred dollars? Roughly a couple of hundred dollars profit (markup) on the sale? Does the roughly $1500 from Konecto *just barely* cover those additonal amounts that the distributor and the retailer spent on the deal, or profited from the deal? Or did they, when one calculates the bottom line, still make some profit on the deal? Did they perhaps make even more profit than on the original deal? I wonder. What do you think?

In any case, I am apparently not going to get the $300 dollars or any other labor money reimbursement, even though I now consider, knowing more than I did before, that it would be fair for my retailer to give me that money. He says I declined it and the deal is over. He tells me to have my lawyer contact his.

Readers can decide for themselves what they think about all this.

[BrianM]

Both the retailer and distributor have profit margin, overhead and handling costs. Most likely there's a pretty standard restocking charge and also standards for handling warranty claims. If you paid $300 to have the material torn out and hauled away you deserve to have that cost covered as well. It seems your generosity and sense of fairness to the "system" cost you $300 in this case when you turned that offer down. It's often the case that we pay for our integrity in such ways. I'd let this thing go if I were you.

[Lifsabsurd]

I told my retailer that I did not want the money from him but I DID want the $300 from Konecto. Konecto claims to have authorized over $1500 for labor costs - for me. But that money is NOT coming from Konecto? Not intended for me? Konecto claims to have paid my labor costs, but that money is in fact paid to and belongs to the distributor and retailer instead? The retailer lets me believe that he lost money on the deal and lets me believe that he refunded his profit to me?

When one is sold a defective product, a product that is worth absolutely nothing, I believe one should get all his money back. If I were a retailer I would return my own profit as well. If this sort of thing happened frequently I would stop selling the product. If it happened only rarely then I would look at the "profit" as money that I never really made in the first place. I would look at it as the cost of doing business.

[Daris Mulkin]

I would think that you are entitled to what you were invoiced for. No more no less.

Daris