Welded seam in Lino vs. an unwelded seam

Steve Olson · February 19, 2010, 05:29 PM

I have a small job of Armstrong Marmorette to do up in one of the Bear Valley ski area homes. I don't usually weld residential seams, but the homeowner was adamant. I contacted our Armstrong Tech fellow, and was surprised when he told me the seam would be stronger if I welded it, citing temperature variations as a variable in a future seam failure.

I'm not sure I agree. If I cut a nice, tight seam, and at some point it gaps, I can weld it then. If you weld it, and it opens, well, good luck.

What do you all think?

Barry Carlton · February 19, 2010, 05:44 PM

I agree with you %100!!!! That said, I have welded 3 times residentially because the customer was adamant. On a small job, requires a second trip. Armstrong does not sell short rolls. It would be a full 160+ foot roll of rod. Finally Armstrong does not make a camo or mulitcolored rod.

With their sealer, I would see no legitimate reason to weld in a residence.

Mike Costello · February 19, 2010, 07:12 PM

Armstrong has a lino seam sealer?

Barry Carlton · February 19, 2010, 07:20 PM

Mike Costello said

Armstrong has a lino seam sealer?

Yes, it has been out for about 5-6 years now. I have jokingly called it a glorified white glue. But it really is a designed bonding/sealing agent. It does not actually weld the seams though.

It is S-761. And is applied very similar to a glue down carpet seam sealer. It is supposed to ooze up through the top and be wiped off with a clean white rag. They want it used on all their seams.

It is also for some of their newer commercial vinyls as well.

Steve Olson · February 19, 2010, 07:25 PM

Armstrong does have a sealer; why you use it on lino is beyond me....Lino doesn't shrink. I think it's the "some is good, more is better theory" I guess it wouldn't hurt, but, why do it? Do the lino installers over in Europe use sealer? I had an old lino installer tell me they used wax in the seams, as in paraffin.

TFP Admin · February 19, 2010, 07:33 PM

Armstrong now brings value to installation with new S-761 Seam Adhesive.

Mike Costello · February 19, 2010, 07:40 PM

No kidding, guess its bee a little while since I have done any Armstrong Lino.

I miss S- 200

Barry Carlton · February 19, 2010, 07:41 PM

We all do!!!!!!

Jon Scanlan · February 19, 2010, 09:33 PM

skhardwoods said

Do the lino installers over in Europe use sealer? I had an old lino installer tell me they used wax in the seams, as in paraffin.

Wasn't that used to hide any gaps when the wax was mixed up with shavings?

BrianM · February 19, 2010, 10:39 PM

I don't believe the "welded" seam in a linoleum floor is stronger than a well made net fit one whether it's residential or commercial. Where I see lino seams failing it's virtually always due to the patch, plywood or concrete failures underneath.

Gouging out the seam and melting hot melt glue in there is strictly for decoration in my opinion.

Steve Olson · February 19, 2010, 11:53 PM

Gouging out the seam and melting hot melt glue in there is strictly for decoration in my opinion.

I think it's there because heat welding is the latest cure for the "inevitable" shrinking vinyl seam. Lino and vinyl flooring are not the same animal, but they are getting the same treatment, i.e., heat welding. It all reminds me of the fairy tale, we were told as children. Remember "The Emperor's New Clothes"?

Heat welding is supposed to result in a more "sanitary" seam. Not sure how 2 cut edges meeting are more sanitary then one, on linoleum, anyway.

Inevitable? In 1980, I installed some 6ft Mannington in my parents home. Dining room floor, seam right down the middle. I had been in the trade maybe 6 months??? I used some IP510A vinyl paste, (clean up was with water,

), double cut the seam and used the old Mannington red can to seal it. The flooring was a parquet pattern, and to this day, that seam is as tight as the day it was cut, and invisible.

What does this have to do with linoleum seams? Not a dang thing, but it's my thread.....

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it!

Jon Scanlan · February 19, 2010, 11:57 PM

BrianM said

.

Gouging out the seam and melting hot melt glue in there is strictly for decoration in my opinion.

Brian I don't think much of your term "decoration" I think it looks terrible on domestic situations. Why run a 1/4 inch strip along the join?

BrianM · February 20, 2010, 12:24 AM

skhardwoods said

I think it's there because heat welding is the latest cure for the "inevitable" shrinking vinyl seam. Lino and vinyl flooring are not the same animal, but they are getting the same treatment, i.e., heat welding. It all reminds me of the fairy tale, we were told as children. Remember "The Emperor's New Clothes"?

Heat welding is supposed to result in a more "sanitary" seam. Not sure how 2 cut edges meeting are more sanitary then one, on linoleum, anyway.

Inevitable? In 1980, I installed some 6ft Mannington in my parents home. Dining room floor, seam right down the middle. I had been in the trade maybe 6 months??? I used some IP510A vinyl paste, (clean up was with water,), double cut the seam and used the old Mannington red can to seal it. The flooring was a parquet pattern, and to this day, that seam is as tight as the day it was cut, and invisible.

What does this have to do with linoleum seams? Not a dang thing, but it's my thread.....
Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it!

***
The guys that I learned commercial hard goods installation (lino) from were all grey and beat up old men who had learned from their dads, uncles, cousins, brother-in-laws, etc. and so on. This was around 30 years ago now. They had the ORIGINAL technology and an entirely different mindset than what we use today to make our living. Not just the floor guys but everyone from the builder to the architect to the concrete guy to the UNION laborer who swept up.......they were all on the same page. Believe it or don't unions were all about integrity there and then. That's what it takes. I kid you not, when they put floors down in schools, hospitals, government buildings and private businesses in those olden days way back when it was FOREVER. By that I mean those guys teaching me were regularly on jobs and in building where their fathers had put in floors THAT OUTLIVED THEM. When we put in a floor I was taught to think along those terms. We didn't melt any plastic BS into the seam. The seam was designed to hold tight!

Of course that begins with the product. Lino, asphalt, rubber VAT----those are floors that WORK. Nowadays we're laying mostly plastic and cardboard garbage designed to fail the minute the warranty is up. What a country!

To me a one year warranty is little more than a joke.

Peter Kodner · February 20, 2010, 11:18 AM

Brain, amen to your last two posts. I'm of the exact same opinion.

BrianM · February 20, 2010, 03:42 PM

Jon Scanlan said

Brian I don't think much of your term "decoration" I think it looks terrible on domestic situations. Why run a 1/4 inch strip along the join?

I agree with your point Jon. Lino never quite welds up as clean as PVC and some colors don't come out so sweet as I'd like. In a home I would prefer not to use any welded seams.

By the way the name of my union is Local #1247 Resilient Flooring and Decorative Covering. When an apprentice does something ugly I remind him that this is decoration. If people wanted an ugly floor they wouldn't need us at all. What we do is partly decoration--------just for looks. That's how I meant it in the case of the thermoplastic welding rod. I doubt it creates a stronger seam.