Complains & Question from "Customers" on Vinyl Flooring

[sinpauk]

No matter how long vinyl flooring was using around the world, for my country (MYANMAR)..people never seen vinyl flooring. I introduced vinyl flooring as a bran new category in 2006. Until now I am facing lots and lots of compalin since people don't trust on the product yet....never seen and used before so they keep asking.
by the way....some companies do after 1-2 year later..the problem is because of their lack in product knowledge, they give wrong info to customers. Their aim is just to sell and get profits only...after sales they neglect customer for any damage or service.

Please advice and help me to solve following problems to get 100% trust on the product.

I provide some questions from customers and also added some parts of my answer. If i miss sth or wrong answer pls let me have it.

Thanks to everyone.

Case1:
Thickness of Vinyl flooring material is too much different compare to "wood parquet". Is is good enough to use overtime?
Depend on customer desire but the price difference is we sell for 220,000 kyats per 100 sqft & wood parquet is around 350,000-450,000 kyats per 100 sqft nowadays. any vinyl floor have limited time period, traffic usage, floorcare and maintainance.

Case2:
How many years company can give to customers? 10? 15?
Not really, even with regular care "vinyl floor covering" normally cannot give that kind of long period.(i mean only for regular standard;wearlayer less than 0.7mm.Apart from some brand like armstrong...

Case3:
Can vinyl floor able to stand weight/water/fire/traffic?

weight=every vinyl floor have their standard resistance level. Only seller or service provider can receive floor spec'. Thats why we must give correct info to customer for their products. all manufacturers make not same standard or grade.

Case4:
Why installation service provider added 5%-10% wastage to real floor space?
This is one of the standard appproved from WFCA or many organization. we also install asthetic design patterns for flooring. we don't use small pieces (cut piece) in order not to look ugly. All line & edge will be straight and sequence when look on floor. but some customer don't accept. they said we cannot do this is cheating!!!!

can review on pic... which we must repair for owner as original service company don't have repair service owner. They both installed just for 2 years only. further cases will be posted in future....

[BrianM]

sinpauk said No matter how long vinyl flooring was using around the world, for my country (MYANMAR)..people never seen vinyl flooring. I introduced vinyl flooring as a bran new category in 2006. Until now I am facing lots and lots of compalin since people don't trust on the product yet....never seen and used before so they keep asking. by the way....some companies do after 1-2 year later..the problem is because of their lack in product knowledge, they give wrong info to customers. Their aim is just to sell and get profits only...after sales they neglect customer for any damage or service. Please advice and help me to solve following problems to get 100% trust on the product. I provide some questions from customers and also added some parts of my answer. If i miss sth or wrong answer pls let me have it. Thanks to everyone. Case1: Thickness of Vinyl flooring material is too much different compare to "wood parquet". Is is good enough to use overtime? Depend on customer desire but the price difference is we sell for 220,000 kyats per 100 sqft & wood parquet is around 350,000-450,000 kyats per 100 sqft nowadays. any vinyl floor have limited time period, traffic usage, floorcare and maintainance. Case2: How many years company can give to customers? 10? 15? Not really, even with regular care "vinyl floor covering" normally cannot give that kind of long period.(i mean only for regular standard;wearlayer less than 0.7mm.Apart from some brand like armstrong... Case3: Can vinyl floor able to stand weight/water/fire/traffic? weight=every vinyl floor have their standard resistance level. Only seller or service provider can receive floor spec'. Thats why we must give correct info to customer for their products. all manufacturers make not same standard or grade. Case4: Why installation service provider added 5%-10% wastage to real floor space? This is one of the standard appproved from WFCA or many organization. we also install asthetic design patterns for flooring. we don't use small pieces (cut piece) in order not to look ugly. All line & edge will be straight and sequence when look on floor. but some customer don't accept. they said we cannot do this is cheating!!!! further cases will be posted in future....

**
My grandmothers Armstrong Vinyl Corlon looked just like the day it was installed after well over 40 years. The structure and integrity of the subfloor is critical. So is keeping the floor CLEAN and polished. At age 80 she was still moving the fridge to scrub behind there on her hands and knees once a week. Nothing could stop her. For residential customer wearing out a good quality vinyl product should never be a problem with any top quality goods. The floors are replaced because in America people remodel and want new colors and styles. Patterns and shades that may have seemed fresh and exciting in 1975 or 1985 now looks obsolete and out of fashion. When the flooring fails it's typically from bad concrete, cheap plywood/particle board or moisture from bad plumbing attacking the bond of the adhesive or the integrity of any underlayment. .

The factories are pretty good about honoring their warranty if you can show them clearly that THEY are responsible. The time frame differs on each brand and type of floor. They're really not out there to weasel out of the possible defects. It's quite the opposite. People are expecting a sheet of vinyl to lay over some of the most God awful sins in the construction industry with dumb dumber and dumbest installation methods and then blame the product when it fails.

Commercial vinyl, rubber and other resilient materials can be made to withstand extreme abuse and still look attractive. Those materials are not as attractive to homeowners. So residential materials are typically much more sensitive to damage from heavy objects with plastic or steel legs or wheels dragged across the floor. Vinyl is a type of plastic. It's not cast iron. Water won't penetrate the surface but it can creep around and get UNDER the floor and start attacking those subfloor conditions necessary for a stable product. If you're house catches on fire the least of your concerns would be the vinyl floor. Ceramic would do better than vinyl in a fire. There are some circumstances where ceramic tile or stained concrete are much better choices than vinyl.

If people don't understand waste then they simply don't understand construction. If this is a particular issue in your culture then as a salesman you need to address the concern prior to giving the customer a firm estimate. I know some salesmen here will offer the customer "layout" choices with certain types of products so THEY can decide whether to save material by putting extra seams in the job or to prioritize the better quality installation that includes significant waste and expense. It shouldn't be so hard for people to grasp that concept if you make a simple sketch or multiple sketches to diagram the seam placement options or tile seam layouts to show them where the waste comes from.

[kwfloors]

Your links don't work.

[TFP Admin]

Thanks for letting us know about that, KW. I edited sinpauk's post to upload the images. You should be able to see them now.

Jim

[stullis]

Pictures show classic subfloor moisture issues.

[Lo Down]

stullis said Pictures show classic subfloor moisture issues.

I agree totally.
In your country, you say people do not have great trust in vinyl because it is relatively new.
if vinyl is new I am assuming there is a lot of stone or tile products used.

If stone and tile is the common material, moisture is not so big of an issue. Vinyl flooring cannot stand moisture coming from under the structure. Vinyl does not breath and moisture builds up under the floor once it is installed.
This tells me that measuring moisture levels is absolutely mandatory before selling or installing a vinyl flooring material.

Under the vinyl floors you showed photos of........................ what is under them? Concrete or wood?
What is the standard or most common flooring construction method where you live?
I am guessing concrete?

[kylenelson]

I don't know if ya'll have been to south east asia, but it's regularly in 80% humidity, and higher when it rains, which is often.

[mcbrides]

That VCT floor is definitely moisture-affected from underneath. Kyle is right, that is an incredibly humid climate. Moisture testing should be a routine practice.

[sinpauk]

Thanks for correcting my pic link.

These pics are not my projects. These were installed by other vinyl installation service provider (technically my competitor). As far as i collected, subfloor is flat concrete. VCT was installed after the building buit for 6 months later. and the company used "general construction labor" to install VCT (they show installation manual video from manufacturer). Lastly "glue" is multi-purpose rubber adhesive.

My point is that here we got only 5 vinyl flooring company (including me). I am trying to get trust of MYANMAR market as vinyl is a new item in here. I am doing this for almost 4 years already. My main expectation is not a profit because vinyl is only in initial stage in the market according to business cycle. right..!!! I studied since my company launched until now.... it's quite alot ...never stop serching knowledge about product,installation, floor care....so on.

But as for them, they order annual sales (big log) from some manufacturers with cheap price and sell cheap, using general adhesive and let installation process by general labors. Then after 6 months their floor got problems...then they neglect customers problems. some buy from china with cheap price for low quality ..then they tell customer gurentee for 15 years.!!!!!

How do I solve these problems? I am trying to do the correct way and putting vinyl to right lane. but others pull it off. My plan is to become vinyl floor as at least people's second choice for flooring in MYANMAR. give me some advice.....

[Tandy Reeves]

It is so good to hear you want to put the flooring in properly. That alone over time will have your customers saying and telling friends the floor you put in do not have the problems the other floors do.

To help get started doing it right is for you to tell us what type subfloors you deal with. We have to have the properly prepared subfloor to put the vinyl on. We will share with you the what and how to make that subfloor right for the vinyl.

We have people here that are indeed artists working with vinyl and can make you much more professional than those bidding against you.

So kinda tell us what you know and we will work hard with you and make you the best in your market.

This is the best group of pros you could possibly contact. That is not bragging that is a fact.

[Barry Carlton]

Also let us know the brands of floors you are supplying and installing, as well as the recommended adhesives.
This is improtant as we have learned that the vinyls and adhesives are sometimes different in other countries (such as New Zealand) than they are here in the US.
Even the floor patching techniques are different in different regions of the world. So the recommendations for your area wold be important to know. The best source of these recommendations is usually the manufacturers of the vinyls, adhesives, and floor repair materials.

[sinpauk]

ok Tandy Reeves,

I have two things to discuss....
first is about "subfloor"...what kind of subfloor is that best to install vinyl floor is that
concrete? terrazo? wood? metal? ceremic? polished surface concrete?
and pls share some knowledge what are the differences and what kind of subfloor preparation must be done before installing vinyl floor on them?

second is about certification! I am really crazy to become a certified floor installer. how to find the perfect course and where to go? All i want is to become a profession floor inspector and installer for all type of resilient floor covering.

let me know....anyone!

[Tandy Reeves]

There are no perfect floor to install vinyl on. You must test and determine if the floor is satisfactory to install the vinyl on. After you test and the floor lacks perfection, you must then determine what must be done to make the floor acceptable for installation. We may never get to perfection, but satisfactory may be as good as we can get. All of the surfaces requires different correction methods.

What are the chances of you coming to the US for training. For installation I recommend CFI, and for inspections I recommend you visit Chris Mha at FITS for Hard Surface certification.

[Chris Mha]

He would have to come to the U.S. cause I have now desire to leave the country.

[BrianM]

sinpauk said I have two things to discuss.... first is about "subfloor"...what kind of subfloor is that best to install vinyl floor is that concrete? terrazo? wood? metal? ceremic? polished surface concrete? and pls share some knowledge what are the differences and what kind of subfloor preparation must be done before installing vinyl floor on them? second is about certification! I am really crazy to become a certified floor installer. how to find the perfect course and where to go? All i want is to become a profession floor inspector and installer for all type of resilient floor covering. let me know....anyone!

Mainly, the subfloor needs to be solid, flat, smooth, clean and dry. Break each of those words down carefully. Imagine EACH specific condition and "what could possibly go wrong." You REALLY have to think defensively as a hard goods installer.

SOLID
SMOOTH
FLAT
CLEAN
DRY

That's just the beginning sinpauk. Take each and every one of those words VERY seriously. An installer needs to know everything about where, when, why and how those criteria will make or break a flooring installation. You will read those words on every set of instructions that come with every delivery of material or at least are available for every manufacturer of every resilient product.

With 30 years crawling on my hands and knees to make a living I could write an encyclopedia of flooring failures. There would be entire VOLUMES on each of the above--------and those are just the most simple and basic requirements of what you need for a good job.

Start with the basics and that's what can be learned in certification courses run through trade organizations and manufacturers' installation schools or seminars. Don't be a cowboy my friend. Don't try to be the hero. Just follow the instructions and when you have doubts or any lack of information STOP!

There's help out there and don't think your need to make a profit or finish a job on schedule is worth your reputation and risk of a massive failure.

PLAY DEFENSE.

That's my best advice.